Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6 ··· 29 30

Original poster

To think some Catholics don't understand their own faith

741 replies

zombiegames · 29/04/2012 10:07

Okay I admit a thread about a couple of other threads.

I was brought up Catholic, but am not one now - but I do understand how the way you are brought up as a Catholic gets under your skin. But it does make me angry that other people here who say they are catholics, appear to have so little understanding of their own faith.

The pope is not just someone whose opinion you can dismiss if you are a catholic. He is christs representative on earth and he is infallible - that means he can't be wrong. This is an absolute key part of the one true faith. It is not a side belief that can be conveniently ignored.

So when the pope says for example that gay marriage or using condoms is wrong, that is a belief of the catholic faith and can't just be dismissed. If you say this is wrong, you are saying that the pope is not infallible and thus you are questioning an absolute key part of catholicism.

Why does this anger me? Because a lot of people who are not and have never been catholics don't really understand catholicism as can be seen on here when non catholic parents who send dcs to catholic schools froth on here about what their dcs are being taught. Posters who post about being catholic and non homophobic, are misrepresenting catholicism to those who don't understand it. If the pope says something, then that is part of the catholic faith and is what catholics should believe.

And sorry I probably ABU as I know this is a bit of a rant, even though it is true.

OP posts:

DilysPrice · 29/04/2012 11:07

For me the issue is that regardless of "infallibility" if you think the Pope is just some bloke whose opinions you can take or leave as they appeal to you, you are departing from something fundamental to the nature of Catholicism. Rowan Williams is just some bloke but the Pope is very different.

jodidi · 29/04/2012 11:09

I am a Catholic.

I attend church regularly (not every week, actually not for a few weeks because I am angry with God at the minute), I raise my children as Catholic, I am on the rota to teach childrens liturgy, I encourage dd1 to serve on the altar and read the readings, I even considered becoming a nun when I was 18.

I am also an unmarried mother of 2 (different fathers ), I live in sin, I lapsed for a few years when I was younger, I use contraception (or have done in the past) and I have a number of good friends who are gay.

My priest doesn't have a problem with any of this, even though it goes directly against the teachings of the Church. My faith is a very personal thing, and I believe it is between me and God. One of the things I like about the Catholic church is that I can confess my sins and recieve forgiveness from God. I don't actulally know what happens about the official sins I don't consider to be sins so don't confess, but since God is supposed to be all loving and forgiving I can't bring myself to believe he will punish me too much (although I do have moments of believing I am headed straight to hell)

TheFallenMadonna · 29/04/2012 11:10

The C&P you did yourself zombie clearly states that the Pope does not speak infallibly, even on doctrinal matters, unless he is speaking ex cathedra.

So you are bandying words around incorrectly, which weakens your argument a bit.

Were you to talk about the authority of the Church's teaching, you would make you point better.

I do find it odd though to be told to just go and join another church. As though it had never crossed my mind. It's not that simple.

TheFallenMadonna · 29/04/2012 11:12

Transubstantiation would be one thing perhaps separating Catholics from the c of e. Pretty central to church dogma...

ethelb · 29/04/2012 11:12

@zombiegames I think one of the things that gets left out of these debates ( I have seen you on other one's along with seeker) is that catholics are expected to develop a conscience. That is not a black and white thing and no-one really seems to grasp that inthese debates.

Basically, catholicism is a way of living (it is very cultural in much the same way as judaism is perceived to be) that is expected to assist you in developing your conscience. The teaching are belived to be the best way to do this.

Individual conscience and free will are paramount.

Binkybix · 29/04/2012 11:14

I think some of it might come down to the difference between identifying with a particular religion, or branch of that religion, partly for social reasons rather then as a result of having weighed up all the different nuances of them and then signing up to one. For example, if your family is catholic.

I know that some people come to religion later in life from a non-religious background, but I think (an assumption) that most don't. I have a number of my friends who would identify as catholic if asked, but are more 'social' Catholics rather than 'fully religious' Catholics, if that makes sense.

In the case of mariah it seems as thought the choice was to leave the 'social' aspect of the religion as well as some of the 'religious' aspects, whereas others choose to stay and live with the mis-matches.

Binkybix · 29/04/2012 11:16

Sorry, mis-matches sounded a bit rude. Maybe inconsistencies is better.

kittyandthefontanelles · 29/04/2012 11:17

Ah, but Rowan Williams I could listen to all day. He rocks like clean socks.

QueenofPlaids · 29/04/2012 11:19

They understand 'their' faith perfectly well.

Whether they fully understand the teachings of their religion? Well some probably do and choose to ignore the ones they don't like & some others may not.

I am an atheist and no great fan of the Catholic church. I also think it's very unlikely that the Catholics who ignore certain teachings will change the church from the inside anytime soon. I don't think they're deluded over what the church actually teaches in the main though & I think many would find that proposition a little insulting.

squeakytoy · 29/04/2012 11:19

There are a lot of gay catholic priests...

MariahScary · 29/04/2012 11:22

Really? Is the Pope Catholic, too, then?@squeaky

seeker · 29/04/2012 11:23

What about receiving communion? Do you still have to be in a state of grace to do that, or has that changed too?

squeakytoy · 29/04/2012 11:23

boringnickname · 29/04/2012 11:25

seeker - I am a lapsed catholic (as Maraih so rightly pointed out) and an unmarried mother, i haven't been to confession - I am not allowed to take communion. BUT my DP is friends with a catholic priest who takes mass in another parish. My DP is a non believer but talks to his friend about things and has told him how upset i am about it and he has told me that he would happily allow me to take communion - so make of that what you will :)

MrsMicawber · 29/04/2012 11:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

seeker · 29/04/2012 11:31

What about receiving communion? Do you still have to be in a state of grace to do that, or has that changed too?

TheFallenMadonna · 29/04/2012 11:32

I was born to an unmarried mother. Baptised in the Catholic church that my mother attended and took communion in. I was bridesmaid at her wedding. She still attends and takes communion although she is now divorced and lives with a new partner.

Makes my use of the odd condom seem pretty tame really...

TheFallenMadonna · 29/04/2012 11:34

You examine your conscience before communion seeker, and repent. Yes.

kittyandthefontanelles · 29/04/2012 11:36

That's what a lot of the mass leading up to communion is about.

ethelb · 29/04/2012 11:41

you should go to confession before mass though. that's why they are often held on sat evening.

TheFallenMadonna · 29/04/2012 11:49

You should go to confession before communion if you have committed a mortal sin I believe. From what I remember of the catechism.

quickhide · 29/04/2012 11:56

Imo if you don't follow the 'rules', i.e no sex before marriage etc you are not a practising catholic. I also don't understand how someone can call themselves a catholic and yet disagree with fundamental principles such as the homophobia. How can some of you who claim to have gay friends explain that aspect of your life to them? It is hypocritical.

I do have a lot of respect for some members of the catholic church- my mum was a committed catholic and as kids we did lots of church-related charity stuff in the local community- all very worthy and run by lovely people with hearts of gold. But I fundamentally disagree with vast portions of the catholic church's teachings. And I don't believe in god.

TheFallenMadonna · 29/04/2012 12:00

Well, it's clear that a lot of people who aren't catholic don't understand it. I do wonder a bit why it matters though.

LittleMissMcFartyPants · 29/04/2012 12:02

I must have missed the memo

Is it bash Catholics week?

ethelb · 29/04/2012 12:06

@Thefallen I do wonder why it matters to. It is quite judgemental for people outside of the church to pul people up on their faith practice.

It's a level of judgement you wouldn't get from a local priest ffs!

I am constanly having arguments with my DP as he gets all upity when a muslim friend of his drinks or has sex. I just think it is horribly judgemental. In a way that many accuse people of faith being.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6 ··· 29 30