To think some Catholics don't understand their own faith

[zombiegames]

Okay I admit a thread about a couple of other threads.

I was brought up Catholic, but am not one now - but I do understand how the way you are brought up as a Catholic gets under your skin. But it does make me angry that other people here who say they are catholics, appear to have so little understanding of their own faith.

The pope is not just someone whose opinion you can dismiss if you are a catholic. He is christs representative on earth and he is infallible - that means he can't be wrong. This is an absolute key part of the one true faith. It is not a side belief that can be conveniently ignored.

So when the pope says for example that gay marriage or using condoms is wrong, that is a belief of the catholic faith and can't just be dismissed. If you say this is wrong, you are saying that the pope is not infallible and thus you are questioning an absolute key part of catholicism.

Why does this anger me? Because a lot of people who are not and have never been catholics don't really understand catholicism as can be seen on here when non catholic parents who send dcs to catholic schools froth on here about what their dcs are being taught. Posters who post about being catholic and non homophobic, are misrepresenting catholicism to those who don't understand it. If the pope says something, then that is part of the catholic faith and is what catholics should believe.

And sorry I probably ABU as I know this is a bit of a rant, even though it is true.

Bamboo You wish thats what I meant!

No I mean have you looked at the statistics. Are people who attend religious services on average better off than those that dont.
If the answer is yes then its stands to reason that faith schools would have a higher % of better off children.
Nothing about religion making you a better person (I dont believe it does)

Perhaps the Church needs to do more to address this fact. Poorer children don't have as many books in their homes either. Who is there to address this?

The whole controversy about more middle class parents getting their children into faith schools is about the fact that they are faking religious belief in order to do it. They don't want the schools because of their religious ethos, they want them because of the academic results. This doesn't lead to the conclusion that the school got the good results because they were religious schools.

I look round me in Church at Mass and there aren't any poor people there. They all seem quite middle class and the parents all seem pretty well educated and well dressed. I'm assuming they're not poor. I'm not well off, but not poor either.

If they're faking religious belief then that's wrong obviously. But, why do they feel the need to do it in order to escape from the mainstream schools? This is the issue that needs addressing. You can't ignore it. People will do anything to get into these schools and that's quite shocking isn't it?

"I look round me in Church at Mass and there aren't any poor people there. They all seem quite middle class and the parents all seem pretty well educated and well dressed. I'm assuming they're not poor. I'm not well off, but not poor either."

So you're saying that it's okay for faith schools to discriminate in favour of religious parents, because that leads to nice middle class schools?

I would argue that if faith schools had a truly Christian ethos, then they would be focused on attracting poorer and disadvantaged members of society and offering them the benefits of their 'better ethos', not discriminating against them with their admissions policies.

No, faith schools discriminate in favour of pupils who are of that faith. If they're more middle class then that's just the way it is. Both pupils who were expelled were Catholic, from poorer backgrounds who couldn't behave themselves.

I chose my kids schools because of their faith so you can't assume that all parents 'fake it'. One of the best Secondary schools in Durham is just up the road from the Catholic one, but I chose the Catholic one because I'm a Christian.

Churches are open to everybody HouseOfBamboo, they don't discriminate. I don't know how they can attract poorer people in. They do help out in the community and make themselves known. Perhaps poorer people just aren't interested I'd love it if there was a better mix in Church.

It would be ridiculous though if you had a Catholic school that refused entry to Catholics in order for poorer non Christian pupils to be admitted What would be the point of it being Catholic if no pupils were actually of that faith?

Perhaps it would be a better idea for all schools to be faith schools then there would be absolutely no discrimination.

Of course the atheist liberals would hate that and object in the strongest terms. We can't win can we?

"Perhaps it would be a better idea for all schools to be faith schools then there would be absolutely no discrimination.

Of course the atheist liberals would hate that and object in the strongest terms. We can't win can we? "

Well, it's certainly a difficult position to defend, I'll give you that...

"Bamboo - there are plenty of state schools to send your children to so why not concentrate on them instead of bashing those people of faith who want their child to go to a religious school"

Er, faith schools ARE state schools, aren't they? That's the point.

"A faith school is a British school teaching a general curriculum but with a particular religious character or having formal links with a religious organisation. Despite operations being usually funded by the state and following the national curriculum, they bar students from admission whose parents cannot demonstrate religious "faith" by regular church/mosque attendance or similar requirements."
Wikipedia

Ok Bamboo - there are plenty of non faith schools. Why not look at constructive ways of making them better

Oh and in a lot of places in the UK, there certainly aren't 'lots' of non-faith school alternatives, especially more rural areas. Another reason why discriminatory admissions policies are so enraging.

Where are these examples of children being left without a school place in their area because the local faith school has rejected them? I would have thought that rural areas wouldn't be heavily enough populated to be turning away non faith pupils.

"Ok Bamboo - there are plenty of non faith schools. Why not look at constructive ways of making them better"

Well - assuming you mean schools which are disadvantaged by the nearest faith school having creamed off the local middle classes, it's likely that there will be fewer parents with the time, money, and inclination to spend on improving their child's school. And anyway, why should parents at the disadvantaged school have to invest proportionally more time and effort turning their child's school around because the local faith school has quite deliberately disadvantaged them?

hiddenhome - in the case of oversubscribed faith schools, the non-faith pupils will of course get a place at another school, but it might be quite some distance away and not one of their choosing.

I have sat on my hands although lurked for most of this thread

I live in NI, my children go to faith primary schools, as did I and my husband. A lot of poorer children (for want of a better word) do go to faith schools - they were set up to educate those that state schools wouldn't take (a very long time ago ). Same as mass, most people I see at mass are exactly the same as us - working class. Oh and this always makes me laugh when I read these threads on MN, attending mass, do you actually have to sign a register? who knows you are there? All we've had to supply to apply for school has been birth certificate and if the child has been accepted baptism lines.

Are we responsible for those parents who don't take an interest in their kids education then? These people might be disadvantaging themselves? 'You can lead a horse to water' and all that

Do you expect people to sacrifice their kids futures for the sake of a principle and that it's right to support the local sink comprehensive? Rats will leave a sinking ship and parents will shun such schools. Unfortunate, but it's human nature esp. those who need their kids to be able to support themselves because they can't afford to retire and will need to work longer. Education is about survival these days.

I do sympathise, but you can't create equality. Comprehensives were supposed to have done that, but they've failed. Parents are making the best of a bad job and faith schools are probably taking advantage of that fact.

"I do sympathise, but you can't create equality. Comprehensives were supposed to have done that, but they've failed. Parents are making the best of a bad job and faith schools are probably taking advantage of that fact."

Well, cheers for that then, faith schools

No, there's no signing of registers round here. We don't have a dense population and it's pretty easy to choose which school you prefer.

What do you want me to say HouseOfBamboo? People disapprove of them and run them down constantly, you can't have it all. You don't even want them.

wigglesrock - my parents grew up in a sectarian town, where children were divided along 'faith' lines. It wasn't a happy experience for them - another one of the reasons why I'm so against them.

against faith schools, that is!