to have put FIL in his place about nursery

[pointbreak]

Out of the blue he announced he thought it was a shame that DD had gone to nursery at 13 months. She goes 3 days a week, 8.30 - 4.30. She is at home with me the other two days and me, DD and DH spend the weekend as a family. She is happy as larry. He now admits it has benefited her but he didn't think that before she went. Please bear in mind MIL worked in a nursery for 12 years.

He went on to tell me that they were lucky as his wife didn't need to work when their DC were young. I pointed out that we didn't NEED me to work, but my career was important to me and just as valid's as his DS's career, so why should I give it all up. I did have PND for the first 6 months of DD's life and we all know that returning to work can help with that.

So, was IBU? What else should I have said? Or not?

The fact that it had a few uncommitted staff members was pretty normal really tinkerbel, I've found that in every school I've worked in. To expect every single staff member out of a workforce of 60 to be top-notch is just unrealistic. The thing is a non-verbal child needs committed care much more than a verbal child because they can't communicate. A nursery isn't guaranteed to provide that.

I would be interested to know how a children-led nursery works pointbreak. Do they choose a certain child to "lead" each day and determine the naptime, breaktime and lunchtime? Or do they have separate naptimes etc for each child?

Cailin lots of nurseries dont run on stict routines.we carry our babies in slings and we would never do controlled crying with a child. Every member of staff thinks it is wrong to do.

Cailin we have seperate nap times for each child and we stay next to each child until they are asleep by rocking them, stroking hair etc. With the babies they have food when they want it if they are napping then a staff member will sit 1 to 1 with whilst they eat it at whatever time

Cailin- you seem to know very little about how many childcare set ups work for someone who professes experience!

I also think you need to ask yourself (as do a few others on here) why you are at such pains to try to denigrate the childcare that other people use, when you have no idea of their circumstances, their child and their childcare provision.

Is it because you harbour some secret desire for other people's children to not be as happy as yours ? because thats how it comes across.

tinkerbell, if it makes you happy to think those of us who have worked in childcare and now would rather not use it for our own kids must be second rate workers, then good luck to you

you seem to be missing the point, though

what you would describe as a shoddy nursery with low standards, I'd describe as a run of the mill, fairly ordinary, run for profits nursery

what most of us have seen wouldn't make headlines and never shows up on care commission reports (mainly as the cc give notice of visits)

I'm talking about lack of warmth when dealing with all kids/finding something to do, usually filling in forms or organising tea breaks rather than one to one time with a quiet child/ not noticing when a child is tired and needs a cuddle/not being too worried if a child doesn't eat lunch, because lunch time is now up anyway/letting a child spend hours in a wet or dirty nappy so long as they aren't crying/ repeating " not now" to a child who stands beside you holding a book..there are a million other reasons

basically not being able to give each individual child the love and time they need, due to lack of time or lack of emotional care

that's why most childcare workers want to look after their own kids themselves, day to day they know the care they will give their kids, even on the days they can't be bothered with the crafts and the books themselves,as no one is perfect, is better than anything they'd get in nursery

I think you can only speak for yourself Faye, and your own lack of warmth- not for the thousands of other childcarers who many parents are happy to use.

I never said I was experienced in childcare, I said I was a teacher who worked in special schools. I don't harbour any desire for children not to be as happy as mine. I've just seen how pre-verbal children can be treated and it has upset me in the past. If I am upsetting anyone now, sorry. If you're ok with putting your child in nursery, you don't need my approval.

Faye - dont speak for all nursery staff and tinkerbell dont listen these nurseries are so far from my own experiences they are unrecognisable to me. Nurseries differ and there are lots of great ones

tinkerbell, if you are questioning Cailins experience, can I ask how many full days you have spent in a nursery and how many nurseries you are talking about?

i trained in 6 separate nurseries, with babies from 6 wks to aged 5

I worked as a nanny for 6 years

and I did temporary supply cover for 3 years in a variety of nurseries

that's where i get my experience and my views from, what I've seen first hand

Yes- I was very happy to use nursery- and my two happy children, now almost teenagers, are a testament to how childcare has been great (i was a SAHM with one, and one went to nursery).

I still think some of you need to ask yourselves why you're so obsessed with convincining yourselves that other peoples children are not as happy as yours are!

I pay a lot of money to have my weans ignored at bleak nursery
it's not cheap to find whey faced hard hearted nursery nurse.no siree
as these day care barns are stacked full.
they even have waiting lists

and yes when I booked at 12week pg they remarked good to get name down quick, as places fill and waiting list is the norm

molly yes there are good nurseries and good members of staff, sadly just not enough

who said my kids are happier than yours tinkerbel?

not me

I never said anything about children being happy or not happy tinkerbel, you said that. I talked about my experiences, which is a normal thing to do on an internet forum. You seem keen to tell people that their own personal experiences are invalid, which is an odd thing to do. If you're ok with the nurseries your children attended then why do you have a need to dismiss others' less positive experiences?

A waiting list means nothing scottishmummy. The children don't create the waiting list, the parents do. The parents don't actually attend the nurseries, the children do.

The only non child led nursery i have ever seen was 1 on tv, on that program on c4 about dads in childcare.i have worked, done placement and visited lots of nurseries in my local area and have not seen any of what is being described

tinkbel, for the last time I'm talking about what I've seen happen in the various nurseries I've been in

if you want to turn that into me being lacking in warmth for the kids I've looked after, go ahead

Of course waiting lists dont mean Anything. Eton has a waiting list and I can't imagine many places I'd hate worse for my kids

What matters is individual parents making the choices they know are good for their children- not the dark mutterings of those who worked in poorly run nurseries with a lack of warmth.

I dont know how anyone could work in these nurseries with such poor practice and not bother doing anything tbh

I changed things in the classes I worked in in the special school. I mentioned a girl with CP who was being ignored and talked about in her presence. I came down hard on that and I asked the speech therapist to assess her for a communication device. She said I was the only teacher in 10 years to do that and the ball was set rolling before I left. Unfortunately as I moved away I didn't find out what came of that.

Tinkerbel, the fact of the matter is you can't know a nursery is good unless you are there every day. A different school that I worked in won awards for innovation and had a massive waiting list. It was closed down last year for abuse of the children (which happened a few years after I left, but which was simmering in my last few months there).

if you think me discussing my experience of 11 years working in various childcare settings is nothing but dark mutterings, you are kidding yourself

if I had worked in the places Molly has been in, maybe I'd be saying how wonderful childcare always is

but I didn't and I can't be bothered glossing over what I've seen to make everyone feel better about their choices

The only way you have an inkling that a pre verbal child is happy in a nursery is if they don't cry on their way in and if they aren't crying when you pick them up. You just don't know what happens in between those times.

I agree with tinkerbell and molly. I don't know how faye or any of the other childcare's on this thread can work for so many years in childcare and do absolutely nothing about the v substandard practices they had seen.

I find it quite shocking actually that people are prepared to spend many years of their working lives doing something so poorly (in effect you are as you represent the same institution/profession) and have such little respect for your colleagues.
Either leave or do something to try to effect change.

Surely you can get a pretty good picture of the nursery with an open door policy, settling in for as long as you like we have had up to a month with some parents watching through the glass etc.you will never see a crying child in our nursery not being held/comforted by staff even tje 4 yr olds.

Thanks cailin for clarifying - you've actually said it outright now: you don't think parents can possibly know whether a nursery is good and whether their child is happy without being there every day. So in other words- you think parents shouldn't place non verbal children in any form of childcare.
Thanks for clarifying.

Now- how about letting those of us who use/ have used childcare for our non verbal children just get on and do it without your scaremongering? We know our children. And they are fine