to have put FIL in his place about nursery

[pointbreak]

Out of the blue he announced he thought it was a shame that DD had gone to nursery at 13 months. She goes 3 days a week, 8.30 - 4.30. She is at home with me the other two days and me, DD and DH spend the weekend as a family. She is happy as larry. He now admits it has benefited her but he didn't think that before she went. Please bear in mind MIL worked in a nursery for 12 years.

He went on to tell me that they were lucky as his wife didn't need to work when their DC were young. I pointed out that we didn't NEED me to work, but my career was important to me and just as valid's as his DS's career, so why should I give it all up. I did have PND for the first 6 months of DD's life and we all know that returning to work can help with that.

So, was IBU? What else should I have said? Or not?

I love my dc but dont want to be a mummy martyr
don't want to talk about myself in past tense (yes used to be x,y) like the precious moments crew

I prefer to keep my babies with me while they are unable to look out for themselves, as I am aware (understandably) that Nursery nurses don't share my view that MY babies are special, and don't have their best interests at heart 100%...........and that is what I want for them.

Ah well, lucky that some of us have fabulous childcare where our children's best interests are served, which enables us to enjoy our children AND our work

"I prefer to keep my babies with me while they are unable to look out for themselves"

Are you aware your kids will have to go to school one day, WAY before they are capable of looking after themselves?

that's a v honest post annakin
and you're right babies can be v challenging
mum needs to consider and balance her welfare too

tinkerbel I can see you're a caring Mummy from your posts, and I don't mean to have a go at you. :) Think I've said too much

good question smellslike

maybe because they view it as just a job? something they can do that doesn't require a great deal of thought or effort? something that they think might be quite nice but in reality is a bit boring?

I've heard all these excuses from girls working in nurseries

Usually they go into a nursery as they quite like kids, maybe have babysat or have younger siblings/cousins etc. Then the crap pay, long days working 8-6 without a decent break (I've seen this often), hierarchy who is more interested in profit and avoiding actually dealing with day to day care of the kids, gets them down and they get a bit fed up with the job. BUT they are stuck there, its a job after all, better than nothing, at least they have weekends off (heard this too often in staff rooms)

at the end of the day, to too many staff its just a job, nothing more

of course there must be some great staff out there, I've came across a fair few. At least one in each nursery always stood out as the one to always read stories, dress up silly, sing daft songs the kids loved, I still remember these women well. Unfortunately there were always too many who were there and shouldn't have been as they were more interested in getting their holidays and tea breaks than getting down on the carpet and telling stories or getting the glue pots out and having fun.

The last nursery I temped in a few months ago put me off totally. It had a really good inspection from the cc. I worked in both the toddler room and the pre school room. Once the kids realised I was willing to actually read them a story they crowded round me and wouldn't leave. I must have read every book they had. I really enjoyed this, but felt like I wasn't following the nurseries timetable and would annoy the other nursery nurses. But I realised they were more than happy for me to do this as it let them off the hook and allowed them to chat about their weekends whilst I entertained almost every child in the room. Afterwards in the staff room, one of the women said to me "you're really good at reading to the kids but how can you be bothered" and some of them laughed.

Now someone like tinkerbel would say I must be an insult to childcare workers to not complain, what would you suggest I do? Say to the manager why don't your staff enjoy reading to kids desperate for attention? That would really have gone down well.

Yes - if I were working in any line of work where a proportion of the staff were routinely not doing the job they are employed to do, and are there just to chat about their weekend.. too damn right I'd raise it with the management.

jareth If you care to read my post properly I said 'until they can LOOK OUT for themselves' (not look after).

.....and yes, I am aware my children will have to go to school, seeing as I have a 14yr old and a 9yr old also (who, funnily enough have been attending school for years....all by themselves, even though they had a SAHM )

yes, big difference.

frankly I never quite believe the worked in a nursery expose
usually formulaic, and I wonder if embellished
like story by numbers

I struggle that if worker saw bad practice they'd ignore and not at least anonymously report

but do feel compelled to disclose and reveal online

I don't care what anybody else thinks tbh. I have a good job that I will not give up, and don't want to set the example to my son that women are just there to stay at home and look after babies.

DS has been at nursery since 1yo and while the first year was difficult, he has done very well there and loves it. Has made friends that he will have into primary school and I feel he's really benefited.

Good for me too - I still have a good job, will have good job prospects and a good pension and am not totally financially reliant on DP. All very important things to me.

the you should temp in nurseries, the managers there are always open to criticism and are more interested in nurturing the individual children, rather than following up the last cc report and making sure the right boxes are ticked so the report looks good

as long as the nursery is meeting the cc demands, which are pretty long winded and useless, they get a good or an excellent inspection

whether the kids have a warm, loving carer willing to show them real affection and love, doesn't come into it

but who am I, just a person with years of experience, what would I know

Good for you jareth and your DS ONLY had one difficult year (by the time he was two)

Off you fuck!

It was difficult because he was only there one day a week. I should have put him in from two days a week from the start.

Tough luck though... I had to work!!!!

Given that some on this thread think no-one should stay at home to look after their own children; that it's a total non-job, non-career, non-entity thing to do, which sets a bad example for children and is, apparently, part and parcel of being a 'martyr' - that no-one can possibly do a good job of raising their own children...

Well, it's a fecking mystery as to why you'd leave your children with someone who doesn't even know them, at least when they start going to nursery...

Jaysus - you say motherhood is a job no-one should lower themselves to, and then palm your children off on someone else. Why on earth would you think they would do a better job? They don't even know your kids, and yet you expect them to do a better job of raising them, purely by virtue of being in 'paid employment'. Because they take home a wage for it. Somehow earning a buck for it bequeaths you with all the necessary skills for raising a child, which giving birth and forming a bond does not. Doesn't quite add up, does it? Clearly you have to believe some people are good at it, or you wouldn't be singing the praises of the nurseries you've used and the people who work in them.

SottishMummy - I addressed you personally in my earlier post, because you're the only one with the extreme opinion that no woman should be a SAHM. No-one else was spouting nonsense that I totally disagreed with. I note you had no retaliatory points to make. Says it all.

DISCLAIMER: I don't think any of this. But reading some responses on here, it's clear some people must. I have no such qualms. I am returning to full time work because as I said earlier, I'm not cut for stay-at-home motherhood. I find it mind-numbingly dull and repetitive and relentless and unenjoyable too much of the time (I have 2 pre-schoolers). I don't get stimulation from it. But I don't for a minute write it off as unsuitable for everyone.

Tis all v simple. Mothers are just as capable as earning money as Fathers. Mothers go to work, child goes to childcare.

Some people here decide Mother is evil and has no morals. Said Mother doesn't really give a shit and sees herself as equal provider with Father. Children grow up with healthy attitude that women aren't here to service there every need. Win!

I think most of the people who go to work in childcare do so because they have few options.

Most of the childcare centers I visited were staffed by young women, immigrants and a smattering of older women - women who probably would have found it hard to find jobs in other areas.

As has been pointed out on this thread, looking after little children is hard and relentless work - and that is when they are your own children who you love. Babies are boring, it was said by a pp. So why do you think someone does it for poor pay, low status and no love? I imagine because they have few other job options.

Moreover, even among that part of the population who just 'loves' random children, they have other options that are better paid and better respected. They could become a paediatrician, a midwife, a teacher etc if they have the opportunity, interest and ability.

My best friend, who is clever and ambitious and loves children, screwed up her first year of uni for personal reasons and was suspended. Her job options were basically retail or childcare. As she is fond of children she went into childcare. She enjoyed her job (although some of her stories of the childcare centre sounded awful to me - like the manager shouting at children and lying to a parent after a child escaped from the centre - she had no other experience and no children so she didn't think it was abnormal). However, after a few years, still interested in children and child development, she went back to uni to become a speech pathologist. I imagine that is fairly normal for those who can to move out of childcare like that.

Yes- It is an extreme view to believe no mum should ever stay at home. But tbh it's a view I've only ever seen upheld by literally about two MNers. Whereas the equally extreme view that mums shouldn't leave their babies in childcare to work, is spouted all the time by various people.

I think the bottom line is: of course there will be some poor childcare staff and pr

Sorry damn phone!

Some poor childcare staff- just as there are poor people in any job (we've seen the evidence of a fair few on here... Working for years in bad set ups without complaining, and even slagging off the parents who use them!)

That doesn't mean we all use those poor childcare providers. If, as a SAHM, you believe you know your child, and can pick up on when they are happy, secure etc- then please try to extend that concept to WOHM. We also know our children intimately. We are their primary carers and we know them.

On balance, reading this thread, as per usual, there are the extremists (NEVER GO OUT TO WORK/NEVER STAY AT HOME!) the rational (this is what I do, you may do something different but hey that's ok, it doesn't mean either of us are better) and the passive aggressive, who patronisingly claim they think it's 'acceptable' for mums to work, yet seem to secretly feel they are doing something superior by never leaving their kids.

I will hold my hand up- I used to think like that last group. I would never have posted or said it- but I secretly thought my child would somehow turn out happier or more resilient or be more advanced if I stayed with her 24/7 while she was young. Having done things differently with dc2 and used nursery, I can see how wrong I was to assume that. Neither is my second child better off. They are BOTH happy and secure and doing well. And they are a lot older too so i have the benefit of perspective on it

There are some people on here who frankly I think just resent it that some women work and have babies who are just as loved, healthy and emotionally secure as the babies of SAHM. I really do think that's the case with some posters, having read the whole thread

'As has been pointed out on this thread, looking after little children is hard and relentless work - and that is when they are your own children who you love. Babies are boring, it was said by a pp. So why do you think someone does it for poor pay, low status and no love? I imagine because they have few other job options.'

tryingtoleave this is insulting. At 45 I am probably one of the 'older women' you also refer to and you imagine that because I am a nursery nurse and CHOOSE to work with children, that I have 'few other job opportunities'? I have had a long and pretty varied career, usually centred round my degree until I made a decision to change to child care. Because horror of horrors, I wanted to work with children, to be part of their upbringing and development in the early years. As I said before, I am devoted to the children that I care for and I believe I contribute to them and their families, whether you chose to believe that or not is up to you.

I am very aware that people like you do not respect people like me.

Hiding thread now.

'think most of the people who go to work in childcare do so because they have few options.

Most of the childcare centers I visited were staffed by young women, immigrants and a smattering of older women - women who probably would have found it hard to find jobs in other areas.

As has been pointed out on this thread, looking after little children is hard and relentless work - and that is when they are your own children who you love. Babies are boring, it was said by a pp. So why do you think someone does it for poor pay, low status and no love? I imagine because they have few other job options.'

That is the most insulting thing I have ever read I am a qualifid Level 3 Forest School Leader, with a 2:1 in Early Childhood Studies, Child Protection and First Aid Qualifid, all my GCSEs, ex military as served in Forces. I work for 6.20 an hour as I love my job and love the children. I dont car about the low pay but comments like this get me so angry!! [grr] Also babies arent boring to me

I'm really glad we've got examples of the excellent and committed childcare practitioners such as those above, to counterbalance the crap ones seen upthread.

I cannot emphasise it enough: the childcare provision most of us on here seem to have used is that described and provided by the likes of megatron and Molly.

Those who've just come on here to talk about the rubbish places they worked (whether ofsted outstanding or not) are simply showing us how unprofessional their own work life has been.