AIBU advice needed about HORRIBLE teacher?

[MrsShitty]

on behalf of my sister who is very upset. Her son is a very good year three child...very well behaved and has been excelling at school, on the g&t register and loves school...his reports are always that he is a good and kind boy, often voted as class rep etc.

This term his class have been taught by 2 teachers both of whom teach year 4...they were sort of tasters for nexyt year to get the DC used to their new teachers.

Yesterday my nephew came home and was very upset. He said that Miss T had screamed in his face...my nephew is almost deaf in one ear due to problems from birth and has had both eardrums burst in the past and this woman screamed so loud his ear was hurt...he cried in pain.

She screamed because my nephew had been going for a pencil and had tripped over another childs leg....she accused my nephew of kicking the other boy and would not listen when my nephew AND the other boy tried to explain he had tripped. INstead she yelled repeatedly as loud as she could in his face that she would not be talked back to and then she told him to sit on the carpet and removed his golden time...she threw his book at him.

My hephew says she has also shouted at him for other minor things such as dropping his book once. She also banged the chair of a little girl up and down with the child still sitting in it....whilst shouting "Go to the toilet then!" and the little girl was crying.

My sister says her normally happy boy has been in tears and could not sleep for three nights until all this came out last night. He is afraid of this woman and his poor ear is still hurting.

My sister has made an appointment to see the HT tonight she does not want to speak to the teacher....she feels she has nothing to say to the woman. I must add that her son is very sensible and very truthful he would not lie....the teacher is new and this is her first job.

What measures should my sister ask to take place? What should the outcome be? And who should she write to in the event that she is still not happy after the meeting? The LEA or board of governers? Thank you. I am very upset about my nephew who has had multiple operations on his ears and only has 30% hearing in the one this woman hurt.

The behaviour problems in many schools today stem from the fact that some children are more interested in their rights than their responsibilities, and their attitudes are validated by parents who jump to their defence prematurely without wanting to know knowing the facts. My humble opinion, anyway.

Exactly.

Yes, but he is G&T - did you not read the OP? No need to talk to anyone else at all, just sack the woman immediately, I reckon.

My friend's DD has hearing problems.

With one teacher in particular, friend had to keep reminding her that DD had virtually no hearing in one ear!

During parent evening etc, teacher would say, she doesnt pay attention in class, doesnt follow instructions etc

She had to remind teacher that her DD needed to be sat at the front of class where she could hear. Teacher moved her then but would then walk around class whilst giving instructions. Her DD could still not hear properly.

Some teachers are simply in the wrong job.

Feenie, I am a teacher and we take turns to be on duty at break. Children from other classes talk to me especially ones I used to teach. There was a teacher who used to scream at them and be very intimidating. I had on more than one occassion heard this through the walls and reported it to the HT. This meant she was spoken to as were the kids but on more than one occassion parents complained too (she even made some of them cry) Not much was done till she pushed a child towards his seat to make him go and sit down and he fell into a table.

She had to meet with HT and parents and recieved a written warning. She was then observed by internal and external people and went on a 'Every Child Matters' course. She is still a teacher and still very intimidating unless you are one of her chosen favourites but the new HT is a wuss and scared to confront her.

6 children have left the school when put in her class over the last 2 years alone. It is quite hard to sack a teacher.

That being said the OP does need to be sure she has facts not fiction when trying to help her sis choose the correct course of action.

But that would be a written warning for pushing a child then - not shouting - and quite rightly so.

You shouldn't have known she had a written warning though..........

It's only hard to sack a teacher if you have no stomach for it. And it is certainly a brutal process (as I imagine it would be in any profession), and most teachers jump before they are pushed. But there is a clear process that can be followed.

I too have heard/seemn teachers behaving in an extremely unprofessional way towards primary dc. That is why I would always believe a child who, never having a problem before, suddenly came home and made an accusation like this.

And those posters who keep bringing up the fact the op mentioned the child was g+t, I really don't understand why that seemed to rile you so much. It was included in a paragraph were the op was describing the child.....she also said he was kind, happy at school and a good boy. I think she was quite rightly just telling people what kind of child he was.

This thread baffles me tbj. The title asks for advice. Which was given, the op doesn't like being told that, while her an may genuinely see the situation as he describes sometimes childrens perceptions are different to the facts.
All this 'there is an undercurrent of disbelief' basically means that some posters choose to read posts this way. The op has also added in her own bits, ie 'she'll be shitting herself' and add to that the fact she seems to enjoy it shows that maybe she isn't being objective. How would the op feel if a collegue of hers accused her of threatening behaviour and nobody spoke to her about it? Meaning she may lose her job? How would she also feel if once its looked at people were positivly gleefull that she was upset?

May I venture to suggest that the fact that just because a teacher hasn't specifically commented on a child's poor behaviour to the parent, doesn't necessarily mean that they are an angel in class.
Just saying...

Agree with clam, ilovemydog - children do lie and if the presumption was always "we listen to children" there would be an awful lot of teachers out of work for no good reason.

This "rush to the HT and scream and shout" attitude typifies soooo much of what is wrong with our schools today .

DDS school has 'we listen to children' as PART of procedure in these situations. A school can not operate based on listening to children alone.

My DCs have always been in Catholic schools and the 'we listen to children' part is clearly taken more seriously there than in other places which seem to be far more complacent, sadly. This is pf course after years of the pendulum swinging the other way entirely.

'children do lie and if the presumption was always "we listen to children" there would be an awful lot of teachers out of work for no good reason.' This is an absolutely astonishing statement to read. I sincerely hope those of you who believe children are little liars never have to go through this sort of trauma. I knew a girl in school whose father was a janitor at St. Mary's School for Visually Impaired Girls in Dublin. He got ten years for sexually assaulting the final victim who spoke up.

'Some teachers are simply in the wrong job.'
If only this wasn't 100% true.

And Feenie -- teachers talk about each other behind their backs. TAs talk about each other too, and about teachers. And teachers talk about TAs. Children talk about them all. I learned about one particular teacher's eventual trip to rehab for her cocaine problem via the school grapevine; the children had reported some very strange science classes for weeks. And I also heard all about the dismissal of another teacher who had organised a Mother's Day card making session two weeks after the death of the mother of a child in her class. When the boy was a bit slow getting his project started, she asked him why the delay, but then obviously remembered and said 'oh yeah that's right, you don't have a mother, do you..'

math

So you heard abut these two cases, you don't know what went on nor do you seem overly bothered that you are spreading rumours and heresay.

hilly if I remember correctly your post said that it was a wonder the child coped in school at all if his ears are that bad, what with fire alarms etc.
I remember because I responded to it (I can't remember the rest of it) I also didn't report it.

Whilst I agree the OP was angry, I really don't understand what the issue is with going to the HT first. The OP sister had telephoned & given an overview of the situation, so the teacher was able to give account too. Going to the head avoids a potentially confrontational meeting.

As I said I am perhaps a little over sensitive on this issue having a hearing impaired son, whose ears would be sore by being shrieked at. I would always believe that something had happened if he was that upset. I see no problem with that.

I think there is a natural and understandable need to point out that a child is usually well behaved and therefore not the 'type' to drive a teacher to the limits of her patience, but really it is irrelevant. Even incredibly challenging and disruptive children deserve better than to be treated as the OP described (if indeed it happened as described) and part of a teacher's job is to make sure they are capable of dealing with that challenge.

But it still makes me smile to hear someone say 'he's bright, he's G&T' as if that somehow proves that he would never be naughty and never lie.

Math, we are not talking about sexual abuse here - how utterly ridiculous.

And if you don't think children lie then you are stunningly naive - of course they lie, and I'm only talking about silly things like being shouted at, laughed at, etc. I'm a teacher, I've had it happen to me - mother comes in screaming and shouting about "how dare you speak to my child like that" when you finally get them to calm down and are able to explain your side of the story they sometimes have the good grace to look embarrassed that they believed their child immediately and never thought to ask for the opposite view.

I'm not for one momemt suggesting that all accounts of wrongdoing in schools are lies and I find your suggestion that I am extremely offensive, I am saying that parents would tell well to find out both sides of the story first before acting.

and before anyone jumps on me for saying that being shouted at is silly, I don't mean to trivialise serious shouting (something I don't agree with me) but to jump to stories of abuse is madness and completely out of proportion.

I've had to deal with claims of abuse and I've done so correctly and presumed the child is telling the truth. I always would. But then it is up to others (social services) to find out the other side.

Yes, that must have been the one, slightly, thanks. I cannot imagine what on earth was in that particular post that broke talk guidelines Meh. I don't lose sleep over these things.

I am not talking about sexual abuse here either, SurprisonglyCurvaceous. I am using a horrible worst case scenario to make a point that children do not always lie and that teachers are sometimes completely unsuited to teaching (or in fact having anything to do with children.)

Boneyback, both teachers were fired, so obviously somebody else besides me had access to information warranting that decision and in their professional judgement the firings were necessary. The individual who mistreated the bereaved child was also fired from her next job. I heard this from the teacher friend I have in the next school she went to, who came to me to ask about her when she became a colleague; my friend thought very poorly of her as a professional and asked what I knew of her performance in the DCs' school. She was fired from that next job for developing a little group of favourites in the class she taught, bringing them to her home at lunchtime, allowing them to correct the work of other children (not in a peer review sense) and add comments. She gossiped with her group of favourites about the other children. A parent of one of the favourites reported her to the HT.

math

unless you know exactly what the teachers where fired for it is heresay. All you have is supposition.

As for your friend in coming to you to ask for details she showed a complete lack of proffessionalism, and as forthe teahcer being fired from her next job it is again it is all heresay unless you have access to the documentation surrounding her disciplinary hearings.

Not sure that I said that children don't ever lie; just that in the situation with DD1, the headteacher took the view that children should be listened to. The teacher did admit that DD1's version of events were correct, and the facts kind of spoke for themselves.

Of course children should be listened to. So should teachers. But the default position, should be that children are telling the truth unless proven otherwise.

ilovemydogandMrObama

that position is ok until you get two children saying that the other one "started it"

No I don't just have supposition or hearsay Boneyback. I do know the facts.

And yeah yeah, my unprofessional teacher friend....
She knew a dodgy individual when she had seen her work for two weeks. Any teacher worth her salt would have seen the red flags there, and she did. Good teachers keep their eyes and ears open for both children's problems and problems of their fellow teachers.

You are tying yourself up in knots trying to defend all teachers against all students and all those supposedly pfb-type parents out there who are apparently responsible for ruining education and damaging the very foundations of society. Problems in the classroom are the HT's business and not for the teacher and parents to sort out between themselves.

Um. I think the default position should be children are listened to certainly. But I'm not sure I like the idea of presumptive trust in the child's version rather than the teacher's. I recently found a child smoking in the toilets. I saw her. No room for doubt. She said I was lying. It was a straight case of my word against hers. Were my word to have been doubted in her favour by my Head, I think I might have seriously considered my position. Her parents believed her by the way. They were wrong to do so.

A serious allegation such as that made in the OP should always be investigated. There are bad teachers. And they should leave teaching. But there needs to be corroborating evidence.