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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

This has made me so angry..working mums, we are the devils work

391 replies

sh1t · 26/04/2012 19:50

I read this, and wish I hadn't

paid strangers to look after our kids

I sort of get the sentiment behind it, but the tone of smuggery just irks me, and the post is so skewed to mums, what about dads. The author claims she is a feminist, but I can't see it.

OP posts:
Shagmundfreud · 26/04/2012 21:32

"youi imply that for EVERY working parent there is a sibbing newborn in nursery, being ignored by feckless 18 years"

No I'm not.

You'd like me to be saying that because then it'd be obvious that I'm being completely unreasonable and you could ignore the point I'm making.

Some nurseries have well qualified, stable staff on good salaries and children in these nurseries have care which is acceptable (if not optimal).

But many nurseries don't have this. And to be honest, most of us would shudder at the thought of an 18 year old with an NVQ level 2 coming into our homes and taking sole responsibility for triplets for 10 hours or more a day. Oh, and keeping those three babies mainly in one room day in, day out. Why is this seen as ok when it's happening in a nursery? It's still one young worker on a low wage caring for three babies.

It's not good. Doesn't mean ALL childcare for ALL children in ALL circumstances is inadequate, but it's undeniable that a lot of it is.

Original poster
sh1t · 26/04/2012 21:33

whatmeworry yes, that is an excellent point!!

I would love love the author to come on here and defend their position.

OP posts:
Meglet · 26/04/2012 21:34

Good nursery staff aren't heartless robots, they do adore the children and hug, kiss them when they need / want it.

They're a lot more responsive and good natured than I am when I have a to-do list as long as my arm and am worn out due to lack of sleep. The DC's get very short shrift when I'm trying to get things done. They would never have to put up with that at nursery!

mumblesmum · 26/04/2012 21:36

My ds loved nursery and cried when he couldn't go. He learned so many lifeskills at an early age - sharing, caring, making friends, going out for walks and outings, playing, dressing up, eating with other people, singing, listening to stories, playing games, laughing, having fun......

He remembers his time at nursery more fondly, and more clearly, than any of his 14 years at school!

Shagmundfreud · 26/04/2012 21:38

prettyfly - if a mum has postnatal depression and it's impacting on her relationship with her baby then perhaps that baby is better off in nursery. I have said this. But neither is great.

But most parents who find being at home frustrating and a bit lonely at time DON'T have pnd, and provide really good, loving care for their babies.

There are many aspects of parenting which are challenging but which we suck up for the good of our children. "You cant get it right sometimes no matter what you do". No I agree - but it would help if people would stop insisting that it doesn't matter HOW a baby is looked after, as long as the parents are OK. It's not true and it's not fair. This argument has been used to justify depriving parents who want to stay at home and care for their child with adequate financial support, and to keep down the quality of childcare in the UK.

porcamiseria · 26/04/2012 21:38

I am pro working parents, but I suppose yes the idea of small babies in nursey 8-6, 5 days a week saddens me.

but frankly, there are things that worry me more

Whatmeworry · 26/04/2012 21:41

Doesn't mean ALL childcare for ALL children in ALL circumstances is inadequate, but it's undeniable that a lot of it is.

Nor does it mean that all care by all mothers in all circumstances is much cop either.

The reason I dismiss all this sort of cack opinion with a pinch of salt is that human babies are bred to survive being born on the open savannah in stressful situations without going loopy, the early 21st centurt developed world isn't a worse place to be.

northerngirl41 · 26/04/2012 21:41

What a stupid article:
Firstly whilst she may be perfect, quite a lot of other parents (myself included) are not and their kids do better by being looked after by other people who adore being with them and spend time stimulating and dedicating themselves to the children - I certainly don't do this 24:7 and I'm an intelligent and dilligent person who wants the best for her very much wanted kids.... How she expects people who had their kids "because that's what people do" or because they accidentally fell pregnant, I don't know.

Secondly she says she's an educated woman and yet she's not using her skills at all - what a fabulous argument for us not to send our daughters to university! Stupid bloody woman!

Original poster
sh1t · 26/04/2012 21:41

I think that the mother centric model that the author spouts is just plain wrong, and the mindset that she brings over from her therapist experience, comes from a damaged place.

We are all fucking our kids up, unless we stay at home and make our kids the centre of our lives.

I just do not buy it.

OP posts:
scottishmummy · 26/04/2012 21:48

lol,it's rehash of why have em if you let strangers watch em
the avaricious parents who trot off to be wage slaves leaving their children with whey faced reprobates.

I will never feel guilty about working, or being a good role model to my children. he'll no im not guilty at being good at my career and a good enough parent

as a working aren't,frankly you need to perfect the oh really face whist thinking oh do stop droning on you daft harpie

prettyfly1 · 26/04/2012 21:50

Shag I agree with you on how sad it is that many women are being forced into work - but that isnt the womans fault - house prices, food prices, petrol prices etc all conspire to mean that for so many of us there just isnt an option. Like I said the governments own mysodgyny and the greed of commercialism have caused that and it will be a pretty big societal shift that causes it to change. In the meantime most of us have to muddle through doing the best we can.

Sh1t - totally agree with you. I know so many kids who would be better off away from their immensely frustrated mothers who siphon all of their frustrated career desires into their children and call it great parenting. They need to go back to work and their kids need to get some space. I also know some amazing stay at home mums who strike a truly perfect balance and are delighted to be parents full time - its a job in itself - and want nothing more. Its totally personal choice. We all have strengths and weaknesses and parenting is no different - assuming that a mum at home will do a better job in all cases then a loving, carefully chosen childcare provider is naieve idealism at best.

RevoltingPeasant · 26/04/2012 21:55

Indeed scottishm - my own mum has an MA, speaks 2 foreign languages fluently, and has run her own business since I was about 5. I am immensely proud of her and she always seems so young for her age (62). She is forever jetting off for weekend breaks to France, cycles with a club, does pilates, and has just started an e-romance!

My own relationship with my mum as an adult is improved because of the kinds of qualities and experiences she has had whilst working. I do remember sometimes being sad when she wasn't around - but you know, children don't get everything they want, I was never neglected, and my relationship with my mum now is richer because I know she has 'her own thing' and is not just my mum.

scottishmummy · 26/04/2012 21:56

she sounds like a cracker of a woman.lovely you speak so highly of her

RevoltingPeasant · 26/04/2012 21:56

pretty isn't it bizarre how we would never expect all men to be cut out to be fireman, consultants, politicians or bakers - we would assume they all had their own vocations - but we assume all women are cut out to be f/t mums.

Original poster
sh1t · 26/04/2012 21:57

I have to go to bed now, as I need to feed and snuggle my DD. Little love.

It is all about balance, respect and choice. Someone tell the author that will they!

Women, I salute you.

OP posts:
ClaireDeTamble · 26/04/2012 21:57

Philip Larkin sumed it up really didn't he:

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.

CurrySpice · 26/04/2012 21:59

When I next see my ex nanny, who has looked after my children alongside me for 12 yearssince they were newborns, and who loves them like her own (and who love her right back in spades), and who I consider to be the closest of friends, if not like family, I shall tell her that she is merely a "paid stranger"

She'll like that Hmm

scottishmummy · 26/04/2012 21:59

no one comments that most dad work ft
but hey a woman dare not conform to goddess drinking from the fulfillment font of mammyhood...something must be amiss

prettyfly1 · 26/04/2012 22:04

Claire that is so funny - I was looking for that poem myself for exactly the same purpose - and its so true! How we see men in our kids lives is actually far sadder then a woman making a choice whether to work or not - noone bats a fucking eyelid when a man works full time because hey, they just arent as important are they? And then we wonder why there is such a massive issue in society of men not taking responsibility for their families. We treat them like they are a secondary option to us - women are wayy more important and that is frankly bollocks. A society that was more inclusive to men and put more emphasis on their roles in thier families lives as more then just fucking cash points would do a lot better then one that focusses on judging women for doing the best they can in the circumstances they have.

P.S. Revolting your mum sounds AMAZING.

RevoltingPeasant · 26/04/2012 22:04

Yes curry - the 4yo I mentioned upthread is going to marry his nursery nurse - he recently tried to steal her lipstick so he could make himself up to look like her - and she sometimes watches him on an evening when his parents go out.

But of course she is a paid stranger.

fedupofnamechanging · 26/04/2012 22:29

RP, just wanted to point out that being a sahm doesn't mean that we don't have experiences/skills/qualities which will enrich our relationships with our adult children. Also not sure if being young for one's age/very active can be attributed to work status - I think it's more about health/personality/genetics?

There seems to be some persistent stereotypes about sahms. One stereotype is that she focussed on her dc, to the exclusion of all other things, that she is a frustrated would be career woman, who's loaded all her ambitions onto her children and has no life or interests beyond raising them.

The other stereotype is that she is boring/too thick to hold down a career and sah because she has no work ethic.

I can't speak for everyone but neither of these things are true for me and I find them as hurtful and insulting as the wohm finds stereotyping about themselves, to be hurtful and insulting.

scottishmummy · 26/04/2012 22:51

I met the precious moments mamas and that confirmed couldn't wait to get back to work! all the gushing and dribbling (the pm mamas) and talking in past tense about work and pre-baby as if long gone

twas when someone asked me what did you used to do
as if I was dead

fedupofnamechanging · 26/04/2012 22:53

Presumably you were on maternity leave when that happened. I think people can be excused a bit of gushing, when they've just had a baby. I expect even wohm do it too Wink

Must admit, I've not met any dribblers - just lucky, I guess.

FayeGovan · 26/04/2012 22:55

precious moments mama's. sm you never fail!! Grin

I knew you'd be on this thread pronto

CurrySpice · 26/04/2012 22:56

karma - as opposed tho the balanced and unhysterical view of WOHP parents portrayed in that article eh?