This has made me so angry..working mums, we are the devils work

[sh1t]

I read this, and wish I hadn't

paid strangers to look after our kids

I sort of get the sentiment behind it, but the tone of smuggery just irks me, and the post is so skewed to mums, what about dads. The author claims she is a feminist, but I can't see it.

inadequate childcare may harm,inadequate housewife care may harm

it's the quality and the delivery of the care that matters,that's the rub

shagmund - FWIW I agree with you.

It's dead simple, professional child carers do not love their mindees. I'm sure children are super-stimulated in nursery but they are not loved. We would all rather spend time with people that love us. It's just nicer and I imagine there must be benefits to this.

I think one of the areas that researchers in this field are concerned about is discipline. I remember as a child not giving a toss if an adult apart from my parents told me off it's the whole 'you're not my mum so you can't tell me what to do' thing.

shag you would have to tell me what the definition of inappropriate care was.
Are you seriously saying it means anyhting except Mum at home full time?

of course nursery nurses don't love the kids
would be weird and inappropriate if they did
it's a business transaction - good capable nursery paid to watch children

"babies need consistent,good care"

I suppose I'm less easily pleased, or more cynical than other people when it comes to this.

I think people are desperate to believe that a nursery can offer their baby emotionally responsive care. And possibly even an educational advantage. I guffaw when I read the glossy brochures produced by some of these organisations. I wonder how many of these mothers would agree with the statement "I could give my child just as much love, attention and stimulation if I was also looking after two other babies of the same age at the same time". Not many. But most expect a staff member to be able to emotionally engage with their own baby effectively on a daily basis despite having a 1 to 3 staff/child ratio. And also be someone with (usually) no experience of parenting themselves, and someone possibly very young and possibly poorly parented themselves.

What babies need to truly thrive emotionally in the first couple of years of life is care from someone they love and who loves them. Someone who can respond to them in a dynamic and flexible way. I don't believe that this is easy or even perhaps possible in a group childcare setting with children of similar age whose emotional and developmental needs are similarly intense.

shag so essentially you are saying that if DC aren't with a full time SAHP they will be damaged in some way?

Freud why do you assume nursery staff poorly parented and young
you have a mindset and are determined to justify it with daft generalizations

this is really just a rehash of the young,slack,ner do wells ignoring kids cliche

"Are you seriously saying it means anyhting except Mum at home full time?"

No. I said nothing of the sort. Sorry to disappoint you!

I think 'optimal' care is provided by one care-giver, preferably mum or dad if they are happy or willing to do it. Loving and engaged relative next best. Next best a good nanny or childminder. Who will stay around for a while.

Least best is being cared for by nursery nurse on a 1 to 3 ratio in a nursery with a high staff turnover.

I'm talking about babies by the way. Not 3 year olds, for whom a pre-school setting and group childcare is, in my opinion, developmentally appropriate.

Of course parents need a break and children are resilient little creatures. Good parenting goes a very, very long way to make good the damage that inappropriate childcare can do, so most babies don't suffer any permanent damage.

But I do have massive issues with very small babies doing 50 hours+ in nurseries, particularly those with high staff turnovers, as many nurseries in London do where I live. I don't think it's a good or developmentally appropriate form of care for tiny babies.

No she's saying it's preferable.Sorry but this has to be recognised not shoved under the carpet to make us feel better.Obviously it's not preferable if the house is being repossessed or the mother is so depressed they don't speak(not that common)but if we as a society bare that in mind and also support families to do what suits their family best we'd all be better off.

cross posts shag.

So you have concerns about full time nursery care not parents working per se?

my nursery has v low turnover.staff rotate but no issues of turnover at all

that is something I did check

"Freud why do you assume nursery staff poorly parented and young"

No - I'll admit that some aren't. In our local children's centre the staff all have an NVQ level three or above, and most are in their 30's.

They don't take babies under 2. And only take 2 to 3 year olds on social services recommendation.

My perception of nursery staff comes from spending 10 years teaching on CACHE courses.

And from working at private nurseries (not as a nursery nurse I might add) where many of the staff ARE young, and come from disadvantaged backgrounds.

Well this is depressing.

I'm pretty sure if we all gave up work and looked after our children until preschool age then there would be something else some of us do that others don't that permanently damages our children. My Ds is already fucked as I didn't expressley breastfeed or listen to Mozart when he was in utero.

I expect he'll be sewing purses in his cage at nursery whilst I work to fund my hermes bag collection.

yes the local authority/nhs referrals for babies and children who need nursery. referrals for variety of reasons but usually to supplement care at home. you see not all mums are innately good at mothering.it's not an automatic given. and there is a recognition that good nursery can be beneficial

heh handbag, i liked your post best of all. Most of our mothers would have been sahm I'm guessing and I'm sure we all have our own little ishooos, non?

Interesting though that society 'looks down on' (for want of a better expression) sahm and nursery nurses. the raising of children is sorely undervalued and seen as just staying at home/playing all day (as if thats a good thing?! Seriously, playing with toddler toys is shite!). I certainly felt like I had really dropped in status from a successful f/t position to a mix od sahm/working 2 days a week over the last two years. It took me a while to adjust, now I have managed to put myself outside that world in my mind and can cope with it.

Don't worry handbag - my DS can keep him company :)

I combi feed and went back to work when he has 4 months, so I've put him down for the "L'il Arsonist" classes

my mum worked ft
my school most pupils parents worked
it was bit unusual not to

The opposite for me Scottishmummy and not a particularly well off area. I remember the one mum that did work was seen as a bit exotic and exciting.

Talking primary school, not secondary.

I think the article is well written and makes some very valid points. But I agree that she should have mentioned dads too. I think because society not to mention the governement does currently respect working mothers at the expense of giving support and respect to all mothers. I'm currently a sahm and I am sick of being asked by friends and relatives when we're putting ds into a nursery - he's only 18 months and has daily social interaction with other kids but you'd assume I'm depriving him by the constant advice to put him in nursery.

mrsheffley I'm not sure you can say anyhting is preferable to somehting else without context and taking a long view.

A Mum staying at home full time because she absolutely wants to and her partner wants her to is a wonderful thing for her DC. But if it means the DC live in poverty and can't go to university, then I'd say the Mum working to avoid that would be preferable. Or if the partner is not supportive and there is tension.

Well at least his development won't be stunted Handbag.

My dc are destined to never go to uni because they didn't do Baby Kumon and weren't exposed to highly skilled nursery workers with far more baby rearing qualifications than myself.

add another to the listt now nursery workers were poorly parented themselves

In fact I can think of many long term outcomes that would be preferable to a woman SAH.

These things are all about the context.

I don't think mothers absolutely have to want to stay at home to raise their kids perfectly well.

I gave up my teaching career for various reasons and had 3 under 18 months,can't say I cherished every minute but I did a good job like most other mothers would have done in my position.

I was just a mum.