This has made me so angry..working mums, we are the devils work

[sh1t]

I read this, and wish I hadn't

paid strangers to look after our kids

I sort of get the sentiment behind it, but the tone of smuggery just irks me, and the post is so skewed to mums, what about dads. The author claims she is a feminist, but I can't see it.

"shit childcare is shit childcare regardless of whether it's delivered by a SAHP"

Only abusive mothers deliver shit childcare.

Every single mother is more than capable of raising their own child,nurseries do not have some hidden extra qualification.It's not all about stimulating activities babies want/need security and their mum.This needs to be recognised,it's becoming swept under the carpet.

I don't doubt for many staying at home with a baby isn't desirable or possible but sorry pretending they're somehow better off at nursery is wrong.We're talking about a 6th month old baby not a 3 year old.

Even if we were discussing 3 year olds throughout the ages mothers have managed to raise kids kids just fine and dandy without the need for the latest fad in stimulating activities.

Babies just need love/cuddles,food,warmth and yes stimulation.Not all singing all dancing expensive activities but stories,talking, a few store cupboard objects,inexpensive toys,the outdoors etc.We're all more than capable of delivering it.

Babies don't need focusing on 24/7.Seeing mum do the washing,cook etc and having to amuse themselves at times is good and highly desirable.

Bonsoir I think most of us do understand child development, but that doesn't mean we want to do it full time or that it is necessary that we do it full time to have good outcomes for our DC.

Many of us can combine both work and ensuring our DC have everything they need in respect of their development .

As for taking into account what it best for the child, I really don't think it is wise to look at what that might be in isolation at any given moment. Our responsibility to our DC spans far beyond the early years. If taking an extended break from work impacts upon later ability to, for example, pay for tertiary education, then that is somehting to take into account. Or if it impacts upon a woman's independence in later life meaning reliance upon children, that is something to take into account.

There are so many factors that make up a childhood and develpement within it. To focus on one aspect to the detriment of others is , IMVHO, a little shortsighted.

I'm not so sure this mammy wisdom cuts it
nursery nurses usually do all the tasks you think mums do

and yes some housewives are inadequate and deliver bad care
and some childcarers are inadequate and deliver bad care

simply by being mum doesn't imbue one with good skills

wordfac - exactly.

MrsH - don't think most people are claiming nursery is superior, just not as bad as many are making out and that all other things being equal, it may be the best choice for some families.

Only abusive mothers deliver shit childcare.

Well abuse is a broad term. I've some pretty poor parents. Wouldn't say they were abusive just either not too bothered or not too capable but I suppose what constitutes poor childcare / parenting is fairly subjective.

However, my child (and I am talking about a 5 month old not a 6 month old - and he was 4 months old when he started nursery) is more than happy at nursery. I haven't noticed them going in for any "fads". They read to him, cuddle him, feed him , talk to him, take him for walks and play with him. They often use "store cupboard objects and inexpensive toys". Seems pretty standard to me and he loves it.

*seen some pretty poor parents

Sorry bar abuse there are no mothers not skilled enough to be a mum.We're talking about mothering.

The vast maj of mothers do a great job, a few may need support with things like food,play,speech etc but at the end of the day their skills as a mother are not to be sneered at.

We're getting on dangerous ground if you think this isn't the case.What next the OFSTEDing of mums?

Word I agree with some of what you say but at the end of the day kids immediate needs need to be looked at too and a balance made. This "it's a woman's right"-end of, sorry is wrong.

I'm not sneering at anyone. But your assertion that all mothers are brilliant is flawed. I don't want mums rated or OFSTEDed. Mainly because how other people raise their children is no concern of mine (provided its not abusvie of course). Doesn't mean I can't internally and secretly judge and think "They are a good mother / they are a shit mother".

Anyway - why on earth is this about mothers only? What about the days my DS is looked after by DH? Is he missing out there too?

Staying at home bored the tits off me till the nanny started.

I still put in quality "child development" time - I taught them both to read at age 3, plus some rudimentary maths. They were both allegedly "G & T" when we were in the UK system (and I got some lovely bitchy comments about that from the SAHMs - largely because they "didn't think it was fair" ).

Really - do what you want, as long as it makes you happy. Spend time singing The Wheels on the Bus and doing finger painting. Go and be a financial whizz in the city. Just recognise that other people may not feel the same way as you - that WOHMs may see SAHMs as vomit covered dullards, and that SAHMs see WOHMs as self obsessed bitches who are after their husbands. Or not. Or something in between.

Catgirl I don't think you should be judging other mothers,maybe some mothers are judging you as a parent. Different styles suit different families.

Re the provision at your nursery,I agree nurseries are more than capable of delivering some of it(although many don't however much we all wish to pretend this isn't the case)but sorry I don't think you can ever argue that you/other mothers delivering the same isn't preferable.

It may not be possible for sanity/money reasons (both of which I have some experience of) but sorry belittling what other mothers do at home to justify your choice is wrong.

mothering can be impaired or absent.its not automatic
the ability to adequately parent can be impaired or absent,not all people have it.nor is it Inate to be able to mother

it can be impaired by
mood
personality
illness
attitude
cognitive abilities
life style

there are specialist teams to monitor and safeguard children were there is risk or actual neglect/abuse

I always start feeling quite defensive in these threads, I'm a SAHM and my heckles have been rising but when you sit back and think about it... We can't farking win can we?

You stay at home - Your children will be unstimulated and have no future work ethic. You are a bore and are not qualified to give a child everything he/she needs.

You go to work - Your child will feel unwanted and will grow up needy. You are selfish and should never have had kids you didn't want to raise.

BLAH! It's all bullshit . If your children feel loved, safe and looked after then you are doing a hell of a job IMO. If you are doing your best and feel you are putting your children first great! You're just like me.

Anyway. It's Friday and I am using some childcare tonight (sleeping at his GPs) :o Anyone?

"The nursery my DS (5 months) is in offers far superior stimulation than he would get being at home with me 5 days a week"

I find it fascinating that so many people on this thread feel the parent/baby relationship - through which babies learn about themselves and the world, is primarily 1) no different and 2) possibly inferior, to the relationship they have with a paid carer.

People - there is a difference between PARENTING and just CARING FOR a child. Just like there's a difference between BEING IN A ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP and BEING IN A WORK RELATIONSHIP. There may be some areas of common ground between both, but they are fundamentally different!

Could you just point out to me where I "belittled what other mothers do at home"?

Only I'll think you'll find I didn't and I do hate it when people can't even be accurate.

DS being a nursery 2 days a week is far preferable to me looking after him 7 days a week. But you know best - after all you know me, DS and our circumstances so well....

I'm not justfying my choice. I simply don't care what you or anyone else thinks - nor do I care how you chose to bring up your child. I am sure you (like everyone else) do exactly what works best for you and your child given your particular set of circumstances.

"mothering can be impaired or absent.its not automatic"

Yes - this is true.

But babies who spend very little time with either of their parents during their formative years (as a baby who attends full-time nursery for 50+ hours a week, then goes home and sleeps 12 hours are) is getting very little 'mothering' - good or bad - at all. Or 'fathering' for that matter.

yarg - terrible grammar! Sorry

Should read:

But babies who spend very little time with either of their parents during their formative years (as a baby who attends full-time nursery for 50+ hours a week, then goes home and sleeps 12 hours a night is) is getting very little 'mothering' - good or bad - at all. Or 'fathering' for that matter.

"Catgirl I don't think you should be judging other mothers,maybe some mothers are judging you as a parent"

I think we should be able to express our concerns about how babies are cared for without being accused of judging other mothers.

Again - can we draw the focus A BIT away from the needs and feelings of adults and talk about what babies may need and feel?

mrsheffley we are not talking about any adult's inherent right to do anything (why woman by the way? Do men have an inherent right that women do not?), we are talking about each parent's responsibility to do what is right for the family unit in the long run.

Dealing with what a DC needs at any given moment, is IMVHO, quite the wrong thing to do. Parenting is a long game.

until my babies pay the mortgage,I as the adult decide what priority is

babies need consistent,good care
adequate nutrition
emotionally available and good enough parents

I as adult, need stimulation, to make money, have career and autonomy
and work delivers all that criteria

Did you find where I belittled MrsH - sorry to make an issue of it but I have a real thing about being misquoted.

"There are so many factors that make up a childhood and develpement within it. To focus on one aspect to the detriment of others is , IMVHO, a little shortsighted."

But do you not agree that if there was reasonable evidence that developmentally inappropriate care in the first 2 or 3 years of life might have implications for the individual's emotional health long into childhood and adulthood, that would probably trump pretty much every other consideration, including a mothers long term career plans or the family's ability to pay for private schooling at a later date?

Or maybe not.

shag first we need to think about our children and young people, not just babies' needs. Looking through the prism of babyhood is far too shortsighted.

Second, who has said a baby should go into nursery 50 hours a week, 52 weeks a year? Nick Clegg is proposing parents on low income use them two (short) days a week from two years old.

It isn't a case of full time nursery from birth or staying at home full time for most of us.

But do you not agree that if there was reasonable evidence that developmentally inappropriate care in the first 2 or 3 years of life might have implications for the individual's emotional health long into childhood and adulthood, that would probably trump pretty much every other consideration, including a mothers long term career plans or the family's ability to pay for private schooling at a later date?

Yes of course. Which is why I wouldn't leave my child in developmentally inappropriate care.