LAPDANCE

[reeniemartini]

Hi,

I'll try to keep this as brief as possible but my head is a bit all over the place.

I'm getting married in October, we've been together 8 years and engaged for 18 months. I have always felt that i hit the jackpot with him, talented, funny kind and trustworthy. he came back from a stag weekend with mutual friends on Sunday night - and last night he told me they went to a lap dancing club and he paid for a dance. £20 - 3 mins.
I was floored. I always thought I was cool with that kind of stuff, thought it was even a bit of a giggle, one of my friends was even a lap dancer for a few years - so I am surprised how angry and upset I am.
He cried. He said he was sorry, he was stupid, he was too drunk and got caught up in the moment. He said he had to tell me because he never wanted to have any secrets from me, he said he was also upset because he didn't think it would feel like cheating but it did.
I asked for all the details even though I didn't want to hear, what did she look like? How/why did he choose her. Apparently it was as soon as they got through the door and she was the first that offered. It wasn't in a private area, she knickers on, a fishnet top and no bra. (God I feel sick just typing that)
I guess I'm so upset because I would have bet my life that he would NEVER do such a thing and now i feel stupid. I took my ring off - more to show how angry I was than anything and he looked like he was going to throw up - he just crumbled.
The groom didn't get a dance - and for some reason that makes it worse. His other friends did - they have all been married less than a year. I said it feels like the first chance you had you all disrespected your partners without any question or forethought. You all just conformed to the worst stereotype when I so much more faith in you than that.
Am I being unreasonable. i just don't know how to feel. I'm angry, upset but on the other hand am I just being a drama queen? He's promised me he'll never do anything like it again, that I don't deserve it and it was a stupid mistake. I just don't know how to feel.

One day, I hope, in the not too distant future, on one of these threads, a woman's upset or disgust on hearing her dp had a private lapdance will just be accepted. Rather than belittled or minimised. And maybe she won't be told to 'get a grip' etc. I look forward to that day.

Running,

But how would you feel about a man's disgust that a woman had chatted to a guy at a bar? I suspect you would say that he was being overly possessive and it was not healthy for the relationship.

People are entitled to have opinions and, if one believes, as I do, that a lap dance is not a big deal, and that the OP has hugely overreacted, I am entitled to say so in a positive way.

We are all allowed our opinions. What on earth would be the point of posting if the only acceptable reaction was total accord?

The report I linked to was written by Julie Bindel and commissioned by Glasgow City Council and has been used to form their policy on Sex Encounter Venues.

Bindel's work is highly respected.

Note that she qualifies which sort of man she hates;

Before the misogynists start ranting on about how many men are abused by women, how many women kill their children, etc, etc, don't bother. Every piece of credible research produced in every country in the world where this work has been done shows that sexual and domestic violence is committed overwhelmingly by men against females. The men who regularly get very offended on this blog, protesting that they have never hurt a fly, probably do not do an awful lot to stop other men harming women. Where are men's voices of protest in this war against women? When can we expect your support in reducing numbers of females killed and raped by men? I will not be holding my breath, but in the meantime, I will say loud and proud, yes, today I hate men, and will tomorrow and the day after. But only the men who perpetrate these crimes against my sisters, and those who do nothing to stop it. Are you in either one of those categories? If so, then I despise you.

It was a stupid mistake afterwards. It wasn't a stupid mistake when he was letting her gyrate (sp) around him with nothing on....

And how about you address the report rather than just attack Julie Bindel for being a radical feminist who speaks out against male violence against women?

larrygrylls, are you comparing chatting to someone in a bar to having someone writhe naked on your lap?

Beachcomber,

www.sociology.leeds.ac.uk/research/projects/regulatory-dance.php

How about the above report which said the median income was £48k and dancers reported a high degree of satisfaction. Done by two female researchers at a reputable uni and, as far as I can see, not funded by anyone related to the sex industry (though please correct me if I am wrong on the last part).

All these posters bleating on about 'deal-breaker this' and deal-breaker that'...

The truth is, you may think you know how you will react if this happened to you, but until it does, you can only speculate....

OP, Another point that Bettyswollocks picked up on is about him crying. I'm sorry but you need to ask him why he cried. People usually cry when they have done something they are ashamed of. yes, having a lap-dance isn't the sort of thing you'd want to brag about but crying, c'mon.

If my partner found out I went to see the Chippendales (are they still alive about) he would not cry. If my partner found out that I went to see the Chippendales and shagged one of them, he would cry.

I'm sorry but I think there is more to this than meets the eye.

Sorry, I meant I would cry, out of guilt.

I would not address a report written by Julie Bindel full stop. She has an agenda, which she freely writes about in the media.

A comparison would be for a labour politician to write a report on why the coalition is crap. It's going to be biased in favour of labour being the best party isn't it?

Same thing with Julie Bindel. She's utterly biased and has her own personal agenda.

Also placing a woman in the sex industry in the position of being in debt to the people who make money off her, is generally known as 'debt bondage' - it is a form of coercion and is considered by countries more enlightened than the UK to actually be a form of trafficking.

Actually, the 'I hate men' misandrist rant neatly ties in with the other thread on AIBU. Why don't you post it there..

But how would you feel about a man's disgust that a woman had chatted to a guy at a bar? I suspect you would say that he was being overly possessive and it was not healthy for the relationship.

That would depend, Was the man naked and did she pay to chat him up for her own arousal?

Purple,

Way too simplistic an answer. Why does paying make it worse? Frankly, in a lap dancing bar, you are not going to snog the dancer. At a bar, who knows, it can go anywhere. And why is the exact amount of clothes the critical factor? What about on holiday on a warm evening, where the guy is at a beach bar in his swim shorts? Does that suddenly make it worse?

Those people saying they wouldn't mind if their partner had a lapdance, would you also be happy for your partner to bring someone home they'd met down the pub and have them dance naked in front of them? If not why not? Personally I don't see the difference, apart from with one situation they are also wasting family income that could be spent on buying things for house, children, partner.

Did you know that the use of lapdancing clubs, pornography etc. is now the third largest cause of debt in the UK?

Actually, I might post it there...

Thanks for linking that paper Sigmund. I think it's always a good idea to produce evidence to back up assertions, but that means you lay it open to critical analysis. Ann Jordan is far from 'unbiased'. She is openly pro-sex industry and anti-feminist. Like the youth party in Sweden, fortunately her work has no influence on social policy and commentators have found the obvious academic and research gaps in this very brief paper. Critics of it have pointed out that:

• No tangible evidence has been produced that legalisation has produced more criminality.
• The evidence of increased criminality where legalisation has occurred (e.g. Amsterdam and closer to home, Nevada) has been ignored, despite the availability of crime figures and state and district government officials going on record to say that legalisation has failed and caused crime to increase.
• No evidence was used to support her recommendation to repeal the law.

So, like last night's assertion that has yet again been repeated this morning that criminalising the purchase of sex leads to criminals running the operation, no-one has yet provided evidence that this is the case. It is a tenacious myth though, with no evidence to support it.

Conversely, there is considerable evidence of organised crime and increased human trafficking flourishing in societies that have legalised.

Whether you are in the pro-legalisation or criminalisation lobby, most social commentators agree on at least one thing. That changes to the legal framework should not be viewed as a discrete measure without taking a more holistic view of its impact. That didn't happen in Nevada, Amsterdam, Germany, New Zealand or Australia. Sweden, Iceland and other Nordic nations did take a more holistic approach and ensured that there was an infrastructure available to support women whose livelihood was threatened by the change in laws. No such state-funded infrastructure was available for women affected by the legalising states.

The simple reason for this is that legalising states do not have as their primary motive the protection of women. Their objectives have been to protect men's rights to buy sex with healthy women (legalised brothels insist on invasive sexual health measures for the women but not their clients) and to earn revenue from what was hitherto a twilight economy.

'Critics of it have pointed out that:'

And which critics might those be?

Oh well, your loss SigmundFraude - thankfully Glasgow City Council doesn't agree with ignoring reports they have commissioned by a woman who is prepared to research and publish on male violence. Bindel's agenda is quite clear - and it isn't a personal one, it is a political one. She disagrees that women should STFU about male violence.

Glasgow City Council agree with her - here is what they say about the report;

The study was requested to support the Council?s concerns about lap dancing and table dancing which it believes demeans and exploits women and is linked to sexual violence. The Council is objecting to two lap dancing entertainment licence applications and will be presenting its case at a continued Glasgow Licensing Board meeting on Friday 20 August 2004. (The meeting was continued from June 2004 to allow time to hear the objections).

The research, costing £7000 was conducted by Julie Bindel, a researcher from London Metropolitan University?s Child and Woman Abuse Studies Unit. The Unit has a national and international reputation for research in the field of violence against women and is renowned for its work on the issues of prostitution, commercial sexual exploitation and trafficking.

In the balance of things you've been with this man for 8 years and in those 8 years how has he been with you? has this ever happened before? did you give him the impression that you were cool with this? is this all wedding jitters?

I'd take the win he's come home with his tail between his legs so to speak it means that this is his limit and he is unlikely to ever do anything like this again, and he is mortified by his own behaviour.

I'd hang onto his honesty and treasure that, let him know you are upset but don't blow it out of all proportion.

Good Luck enjoy your wedding knowing that you are marrying an honest man who cares about how you feel.

Not a personal one? Give me strength. That's like saying YOU don't have a personal agenda.

A varety Sigmund. Academics, research scientists, Europeans who think it's risible that an American feels entitled to comment on another nation's laws while ignoring the abuses of women in her own back yard, as well as the feminists you hate so much, despite apparently being a woman whose rights wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the feminist movement.....

Larry, Your comparisons are laughable, Sorry.

I doubt you will even tead this! But I think he fucked up, he feels bad, he said sorry

forgve him OP

'as well as the feminists you hate so much, despite apparently being a woman whose rights wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the feminist movement.....'

Oh I don't deny that historically, feminists were a force for good. Modern day feminists are a force of oppression, which is ironic.