LAPDANCE

[reeniemartini]

Hi,

I'll try to keep this as brief as possible but my head is a bit all over the place.

I'm getting married in October, we've been together 8 years and engaged for 18 months. I have always felt that i hit the jackpot with him, talented, funny kind and trustworthy. he came back from a stag weekend with mutual friends on Sunday night - and last night he told me they went to a lap dancing club and he paid for a dance. £20 - 3 mins.
I was floored. I always thought I was cool with that kind of stuff, thought it was even a bit of a giggle, one of my friends was even a lap dancer for a few years - so I am surprised how angry and upset I am.
He cried. He said he was sorry, he was stupid, he was too drunk and got caught up in the moment. He said he had to tell me because he never wanted to have any secrets from me, he said he was also upset because he didn't think it would feel like cheating but it did.
I asked for all the details even though I didn't want to hear, what did she look like? How/why did he choose her. Apparently it was as soon as they got through the door and she was the first that offered. It wasn't in a private area, she knickers on, a fishnet top and no bra. (God I feel sick just typing that)
I guess I'm so upset because I would have bet my life that he would NEVER do such a thing and now i feel stupid. I took my ring off - more to show how angry I was than anything and he looked like he was going to throw up - he just crumbled.
The groom didn't get a dance - and for some reason that makes it worse. His other friends did - they have all been married less than a year. I said it feels like the first chance you had you all disrespected your partners without any question or forethought. You all just conformed to the worst stereotype when I so much more faith in you than that.
Am I being unreasonable. i just don't know how to feel. I'm angry, upset but on the other hand am I just being a drama queen? He's promised me he'll never do anything like it again, that I don't deserve it and it was a stupid mistake. I just don't know how to feel.

'None so blind, eh Charbon'

You said it Whatmeworry! You might be interested in this paper, released by the Washington college of Law's Center for Human Rights & Humanitarian Law. It was released this month (so bang up to date), and provides unbiased facts on the failure of the Swedish sex laws, and the efforts of the Swedish governments and feminists to cover it up.

Please do read it...

The Swedish Law to Criminalise Clients A Failed Experiment In Social Engineering

at 40k

I always get the impression that the men who visit these places also wank over the amount of money they think the women are getting. Nobody on this thread of course. But the idea of women making money from this also seems like a titillation. Men who use lapdancers certainly seem interested in how much they earn. You never hear the same kind of interest in how much women doing other traditionally female jobs say teachers, cleaners, or nurses earn for example.

Because no-one is telling teachers or nurses that they can't teach or nurse.

£40k?! Shit I'm in the wrong business

Report on the reality of how the working conditions in LDCs financially exploit the women.

All dancers in lap-dance clubs are self-employed, relying on tips and income from private dances. Dancers pay between £35 and £100 per night to the club management for ?rent? of the facilities40, such as the poles, cabaret areas, private dance booths and VIP suites. Weekend rates are higher, and there are sometimes other conditions imposed. For example, The Truffle Club management reserve the right to increase the rate by £10 if the club is especially busy. All of the women interviewed reported that they had often lost money by working at the club when their earnings failed to cover rent, clothing, travel, drinks and childcare. Some club owners allow debt to accumulate, which can leave the dancers desperate to ?catch up?. As one dancer put it, ?Although some of the girls ? the really pretty ones who are well-stacked ? can make a fortune at times, most of them struggle to make a proper wage? (GD1). In addition to daily expenses, dancers at the four Glasgow clubs, and Spearmint Rhino, London, are advised to purchase specialist clothing from an individual visiting the club who runs her own business41. In at least one club, the women are explicitly told that they should not buy clothes from anywhere else or make their own, in case they do not fit the ?house style?.

Beachcomber I'm not sure what point you're trying yo make. The part that says women who do not make enough money can't cover basic costs. Does this not apply to all self employed positions? As to where the women are told to get their outfits, a uniform or dress code is requisite on most positions in most industries, even if self employed as a dancer because you are agreeing to be self employed on the basis that you dress appropriately for work. These conditions ARE made clear at the start.

Though I do agree that legislation on the amount of debt a dancer owesto a club is quite appropriate. That is very exploitative and should be kerned.

People wotking in Aldi are self employed and they still have to wear a uniform.

Yes Nyac, I suspect some men they get off on the idea that they are calling the shots on a woman who earns 40K. For some this fantasy is much more titillating than having a woman writhe on your crotch because she is funding a drug habit or has no other way to feed her kids or because she has been trafficked or pimped.

Then again some punters get off on the idea of a woman who is so desperate she will do anything for some money.

It takes all sorts to keep the club owners wealthy.

larrygrylls
I never said it was a dealbreaker. My point was that I was was shocked and surprised at him and shocked and surprised at my own feelings. I wanted to know from other people how they would feel in the same situation. As I said I don't want to talk to anyone I know about this as I do not wish either of us to be to be judged (as we all can see verybody finds it easy to judge).

Yes I do realise that we will be tested over the years. I am a beginner as far as marriage is concerned and do not have the years of experience that many on this board have - hence me thinking this would be a good place to get anonymous advice from.

melika Very true, he didn't have to tell me but I'm glad he did. If you ask for truthfulness in a relationship ypu have to be prepared for the fact that you may not always like what you hear.

Charbon V. sorry for having this on 2 threads, I am new here, a bit confused and not entirley sure how the whole thing works. I think you'll see it was rectified pretty quickly. Breaching netiquiette wasn't at the forefront of my thoughts.

Groovee I asked him jokingly the night he came back if anything had happened if he had a dance in the lapdancing club. He looked like death warmed up. He said, no - you can check my credit card receipts, I said (laughing), yeah because they carry chip and pin machines in their knicker don't they? He said, look I'm so hungover, Ill tell you all about it tomorrow - which he did. I was v. pisseed off about that though. He offered something as proof that he knew would decieve me.

Does Aldi employ double the number of cashiers they actually need at one time so that the workers have to compete with each other for a chance to make money? Do the workers in Aldi rent those tills? Do they start their working day in debt and have to perform sexual favours for the customers in order to pay off that debt?

Dog,

Yes, it is shocking, isn't it. When you go to your poor exploited male hairdresser, do you really care what the man in the equation feels? Are you there for him or do you just want your own kicks in terms of a haircut, nice chat and cup of coffee? Poor objectified chap, and he is earning A LOT less than the lapdancer.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1306701/Lap-dancers-One-strippers-university-degree.html

According to that piece of research, the median income is 48k, so go figure!

They do not. but you seem to be working on the premise taht people entering the sex industry are unaware how the ins and outs of making their money works. In any job, you ask questions at interview to ensure that you are fully aware of any charges etc (such as in other selling jobs that require upfront fees) and make your choice based on the minimum money you would exoect to make. It can't be less than minimum wage or these clubs wouldn't be allowed to operate in the first place. The debt thata person rakes up is on their own head, really. If you can't afford it don't buy it, as they say. But I still think that laws should be in place to stop owners of clubs taking the piss re: debt.

Wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me purely because of the remorse that he showed.

DH went to a stripclub for his Stag-night. My Dad went and Brother and a large group of his friends. I've seen the photos as they pulled DH up on stage as they writhed around him - I could tell that he was trying to laugh with them, but he looked MORTIFIED.

It was the only time I'd ever allow it though, never again. From your OP, I can't imagine that your soon to be DH will EVER go again.

Also, I know (from stuff that I've read on here) that the world of stripclubs etc has a lot of dark stuff going on, but I had a friend who worked in a stripclub in London. She made £3000 in one month (it was a posh place) and managed to clear her debts. She used to laugh about the guys that would go there. She was in no way being abused. Once she'd made her money, she left and became a Recruitment Consultant.

A massive percentage of the things that go on in that type of world are awful and degrading to women, but for a small percentage of the women, it really is a means to an end. Once they've got the money, it's over and done with.

And no-one "has" to perfirm sexual favours to pay off debt. They have a choice to say, "I can't afford to work here anymore. Please bill me for what I owe you." and that should be that.

*perform

Reenie,

Do you really want full disclosure in your relationship, and do you think it is a terribly positive thing? What about when you buy that pair of shoes that "you really shouldn't have" or eat the last chocolate in the cupboard. Or, closer to this thread, you are out with girlfriends and have a really nice (maybe slightly flirtatious) chat with a man at a bar, knowing you have no intention of taking it further or ever seeing him again. Are you going to feel obliged to go back to your husband and tell him exactly what the guy looked like, what you chatted about, maybe that you felt a little aroused?

That is what "full disclosure" implies. Would it really be such a good thing for either of you, or just unnecessary and hurtful?

This person went out and got drunk and made a mistake -he regrets the mistake and is honest with his dp about his mistake (rather than a friend letting the cat out the bag, which would be worse)

If I went out and got drunk and made a one of mistake and was honest about it and felt awful about what I had done - how should I be punished?

My husband went to a strip bar on his stag do, and I requested that there were no private dances. I said I didn't think it was the right thing to do just before you marry someone. They all got very drunk and he did have a private dance, but as our wedding was a few weeks away I was not told till two days before our wedding day. I, like you, was very upset. He told me because he felt bad and I think because he didn't want me to marry him without knowing.

I went bat s**t mental, cried and was very upset. It really cut me to the bone to think about that woman doing those things to my man just before we got married. But we still got married.

I think you are not in the wrong to show him how you feel about this right now and to be very upset. But I wouldn't let it ruin your life together and I would move on. He's very unlikely to do anything like that again following your reaction.

He sounds like a lovely man, and he's been honest with you which is great.

So I would feel free to be very upset right now, but don't punish him for it forever. You are not being a drama queen, it's just how you feel about it and that's ok to feel like that and to show it.

i dont get the issue tbh. i would assume that on my partners hen do they could possibly have strippers and mess around. And i have seen what goes on in those situations and its alot worse than a lapdance lol.

Larry is totally right ... "full disclosure" in a marriage is asking for trouble IMO .

"Reenie,
Do you really want full disclosure in your relationship, and do you think it is a terribly positive thing? What about when you buy that pair of shoes that "you really shouldn't have" or eat the last chocolate in the cupboard. Or, closer to this thread, you are out with girlfriends and have a really nice (maybe slightly flirtatious) chat with a man at a bar, knowing you have no intention of taking it further or ever seeing him again. Are you going to feel obliged to go back to your husband and tell him exactly what the guy looked like, what you chatted about, maybe that you felt a little aroused?
That is what "full disclosure" implies. Would it really be such a good thing for either of you, or just unnecessary and hurtful? "

Larry, those of us in strong relationships, who are emotionally mature/healthy and secure, are able to do just that, full disclosure, no if's or buts. It's neither unnecessary or hurtful, why would it be? Having a strong moral code and a belief in total honesty is a good thing.

In this case I think OP's partner made a terrible mistake and has thankfully offered up the information, if he's any kind of decent man he will understand her devastation and never do anything so stupid and hurtful again.

I think its a lot much about ME learning what my own boundaries are. You're right, it does feel like a little piece of me has died. I thought he had a lot more respect for women than that

But OP, you said you thought you were cool with it and it probably seemed that way to him....now you both know that you're not!

TBH Lapdancers etc dont bother me at all, DH went to a club on his stag do (I booked it for him), he had a couple of dances, had a good evening, the sky didnt fall in and we have been married for 14 years now.

What would worry me about your DO is the fact the he cried (why the hell did he cry?) and that he said he was drunk and didnt know what he was doing. Crap, I cant imagine he was THAT drunk............it would just worry me about what else he would do and then blame the drink.

All this dealbreaker stuff....I am always amazed on MN about how people say it would be a dealbreaker for them........yeah right, as if you would end your marriage and uproot for your kids for a 3 minute lap dance, sheer madness! Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

This is a very emotive subject though, always a good one for AIBU!

Beachcomber - the report you linked to was written by

Julie Bindel -why I hate men

Try finding an unbiased report eh? Not one written by a radical feminist.

It was a dance, he told you about it, there's no hidden agenda so I don't see the problem.

Maybe I'm a liberal but its not like he went and kissed / shagged the woman or the likely even touched each other! There's no emotional connection what so ever so how on earth it could be described as cheating (particularly if he didn't know you would not approve) I don't know.

Just a perspective from a different view point to most here.