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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Mmm.... racism?

265 replies

laughlovelife · 17/04/2012 11:16

I have a friend who wont date black men, not because they are black but because she does not find black men attractive, in the same way she wont date a man who has blond hair and blue eyes.

I cant work out if she is racist or it is simply her preference in men, she has many friends who are the above, but still I'm Hmm so is she racist or not Confused

OP posts:
TheRhubarb · 18/04/2012 11:17

D'you know what?

Every time I see this flippin' thread title now it reads like:

Mmm.... cadbury's
or
Mmm.... Danone.

I say it in a singsong voice which is wholly inappropriate! And it's all your fault for keeping it in active convos where I can see it! Tut.

bejeezus · 18/04/2012 11:17

its too subconscious in our society, to just tackle the surface

I would NOT be comfortable being around someone who wouldnt date black men, because she didnt find black skin attractive

FeakAndWeeble · 18/04/2012 11:20

NOW....do you know any black people whos skin colour hasnt affected their lives?

Um, I do. Me.

Confused
bejeezus · 18/04/2012 11:21

equally...I wont be around people that think white skin is 'not attractive'

WhiteShores · 18/04/2012 11:21

"and pretending that it doesnt happen/ those people dont exist, wont make it go away. Those people will ALWAYS exist"

Oh no, I know those people still exist. There are some on this very thread insisting that skin colour is different from any other physical characteristic. ;)

bejeezus · 18/04/2012 11:24

im coming at this from the perspective of white wife of black husband with MR dcs

I dont want anyone conveying the message to my dcs that black skin is less attractive...they get enough of that from the media

I think my parent perspective is skewing my reaction to this thread

ill step away

WhiteShores · 18/04/2012 11:24

Equally, I wouldn't want to be around anyone who insisted on it being different, and treated differently, as far as I am concerned that really is the source of racism.

porcamiseria · 18/04/2012 11:26

i do see your point, but the fact is that people get discriminated against because of their skin colour

so to pretend its just "skin colour" is disingenous, when its the cause for such cruelty and discrimaination.

and if anyone brings up "well ginger haired people" I will fucking scream
as I have not so far seen apartheit, segregation and lynching against people with ginger hair.....

IMO

WhiteShores · 18/04/2012 11:26

I'm the white wife of a black DH too bejeezus, and I'm very defensive over his experiences of racism (of which he has had many). But you and I differ over where that racism stems from.

I stand by my firm belief that it stems from believing skin colour is somehow different, and should be treated differently from any other inborn physical characteristics.

WhiteShores · 18/04/2012 11:28

Yes porcamiseria, people do get discriminated against because of their skin colour, because people believe it is more than just a look.

Can't you see that all of the people on this thread in fact have a healthy view of what black skin really is... just a colour, skin-deep!

Thats not ignoring the history, thats trying not to repeat it!

porcamiseria · 18/04/2012 11:29

what bejeezus said

FeakAndWeeble · 18/04/2012 11:30

My DS is MR. I do know where you're coming from bejeezus. But I honestly don't think that finding dark skin less sexually attractive than light should imply any inherent discrimination on the part of the person doing the looking.

When DS was born he was very very light skinned but he's got progressively darker as he's gotten older. If, when he grows up, someone doesn't fancy him because they're not into his skin colour, then I'll just have to tell myself that that's the same, really, as if they didn't like his hair colour - or didn't think he was tall enough - or maybe they just love gingers Grin

I do think that that's a very different thing from being racist.

MissCeliaFoote · 18/04/2012 11:31

WorraLiberty, that was a joke right? How can you NEVER have met a black person!?

Personally, I find it narrow minded and offensive when people say 'I'd never date a black girl/guy'. I just do. And yes, I think it's racist. If people do feel like that, they should try to keep it to themselves because it's just abhorrent.

WhiteShores · 18/04/2012 11:33

I totally agree that history has made more out of skin colour than should ever have been made, and that this has resulted in severe atrocities.

Why on earth would I ever want to perpetuate those beliefs that led to those atrocities.

Skin colour is just another physical characteristic.

All the wrong that has done against black people has been done by people who didn't believe that, not those who did, and do.

MissCeliaFoote · 18/04/2012 11:33

Sorry sorry, I meant Pendeen -not you Worra - misread.
Pendeen, my question still stands - just curious to know why you've never met a black person?

bejeezus · 18/04/2012 11:43

whiteshores Im curious to your opinion of organisations such as The Black Development Agency?

WhiteShores · 18/04/2012 11:48

bejeezus I think they are helpful and necessary to counteract the beliefs of people that to this day think skin colour is more than just outward appearance, and continue to perpetuate that belief.

If everyone treated skin colour as a skin-deep physical characteristic as any other, racism would not exist.

I live in hope of that day.

Hownoobrooncoo · 18/04/2012 11:55

I agree that a LOT of the earlier posts (mine included) were along the lines of women saying they don't really find black men attractive, they did seem to be more singled out. Considering that even many black people were once (maybe still to a certain degree) conditioned to find black skin unattractive as well then I can see why this thread could be upsetting and cause offense to some. Black sin has often had a raw deal, seen as unattractive,and that has sort of been enforced on this thread.

Hownoobrooncoo · 18/04/2012 11:56

black skin not 'sin'.

bejeezus · 18/04/2012 12:01

On reflection, I think the reason I feel as I do, is because I wouldnt believe that the person who 'doesnt find black skin attractive' only considers it to be 'another physical attribute'.

I would be very suspicious that they did harbour racist prejudices (maybe subconsciously). And I have had too many experiences (and enough friends) to bother to investigate her motives/ underlying physcology. She wouldnt be around me and mine anymore

bejeezus · 18/04/2012 12:03

disclaimer: I find people who put a lot of importance on physical looks/ attractiveness, tedious anyway. So probably wouldnt be hanging out with people who even had an exclusive preference for blond men, either

WhiteShores · 18/04/2012 12:14

bejeezus I would agree with you that some racists may very well hold such views, and use personal preference as a bit of a cover story.

However, that doesn't mean everyone who genuinely has a sexual personal preference is a closet racist.

I genuinely prefer my DH's gorgeous dark, polished skin... because its just what does it for me in the lust department, gets the juices flowing (TMI) Blush.

However, I absolutely have no hidden bad/racist feelings toward white men (I'm white myself), and would happily have married one of my previous white partners if it had worked out.

Because I'm coming at it from this perspective, I can easily see why it would work for someone in the reverse and not make them racist.

bettybat · 18/04/2012 12:46

Bejeezus I get what you're saying, I really do - and I am the first to consider racism as the motive when it comes to these things. But along with a whole bunch of other things my husband has taught me about the subtleties of racism, he's also taught me when it's not there...that it doesn't have to be everywhere.

Is there not room for when it is as simply as innocuous as an unconscious preference, much like my preference for black/mixed race men?

I'll always remember, moving down to London from a small Northern town at the age of 18, working in a shop, and getting into a conversation with the much older ladies there about relationships. One of them said - black men only go out with white women to get back at the white male slave patriarchy. I remember being completely shocked to my very core about the concept of this - couldn't relationships just be - two people fancying each other?

About six months later, my first boyfriend was black, and I asked him about this. He shrugged, said maybe but it was kind of weird and he couldn't imagine it and it freaked him out. He said he fancied me because I had a big bum. Very shallow, very much based in physical attraction, but the normality of it against the shock of those ladies made everything wonderful.

My husband - mixed race, also covets my big bum, and when I asked him why he seemed to have a preference for white women (the majority of his girlfriends had been white), he said he never really thought about it, he was attracted to the person. No sinister reason. Now - he doesn't have some deep rooted self-loathing induced hatred of black women. He is immensely proud of his black heritage, is immensely opinionated, very intelligent, very self-aware and very proud of his roots. Is he racist for having a physical preference for short white women with big bums?

I can't figure any of this out - I just have, over the years, leaned towards black men. It's not a conscious thing - it's not that I set out to only date black men. There's a billion other things to take into consideration like a really massive one like personality! It's not a blanket attraction...I don't go weak at the knees with every black man I encounter. But like everyone, I've met people who caught my eye, they had that certain je ne sais quoi, they've made me laugh, and on the whole, they've happened to be black.

bejeezus · 18/04/2012 12:57

I see what you are both saying too. But they wont be getting the benefit of the doubt from me.

Most of my motivation, is to limit the negative subliminal messages sent to my dcs. Like I said, they get enough of that from the media. And they will encounter it in their lives. But I am not going to give them the message that it is OK to discount someone based on their skin colour. Those people are not welcome in our lives, whatever their motivation

But again....I dont get the having an exclusive preference for physicality anyway

HokeyCokeyPigInaPokey · 18/04/2012 13:01

As a white wife of a black man with mixed race dcs i totally agree with everything WhiteShores said.