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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask the vicar and his wife to speak to the parents of a 'new' very badly behaved boy

157 replies

pingu2209 · 15/04/2012 15:29

Today I went to church. We are regular church goers and today was their monthly family service held in the local secondary school, rather than within the church itself. There are 2 things going on: messy church for the children and cafe church for the adults.

The church still has another normal family service each month within the church, this service is different in that there is no singing and there is a lot of messy play activities with a Christian theme.

I really love my church. It is very friendly and a great mix of ages. There are all sorts of activities laid on for all the age groups.

However, today I was really shocked by the behaviour of one child at church whose family have only just started to attend the services. To be frank his behaviour totally spoiled the morning for me and my children.

The boy is about 7 or 8 and he was extremely unruely and agressive. He punched my 6 year old in the chest, kicked my 4 year old and kept pushing my (and other) children out of the way when he wanted to get to something. I finally snapped when he grabbed my 6 year old's jumper and started to throw it around and kick it across the hall. He had picked it up from a chair at the back of the hall, where I had put it folded up.

I watched him for a while opened mouthed at his behaviour and wondering why the parents wouldn't say anything. His father just sat there drinking coffee in another room and his mother wasn't there.

The very young children were shoved and pushed and at one point I had to see if a boy was okay because this one child had shoved him with his shoulder. He started to cry and went back to his mum in the other room. Then 2 other younger children asked to go back to their parents, but these 2 children I know well and they would normally stay.

After a while, other parents in the messy church started to make comments regarding the child's behaviour and were jokingly saying "I wonder who had Smarties for breakfast..." that kind of comment.

Eventually the leader of the messy church said that all the children were to go back to their parents in the cafe church (other room) and asked me to give the parents a 5 minute warning. I said that it was difficult as there was a talk being given to the parents. To which, the church leader said that she had no choice but to give the children back as it was becoming chaos. I had to agree with her - but it was all due to this one child!

I was then told that the boy in question was going to start going to the church group on a Wednesday evening during term time. My children love going to this group, but there is no way I will let them go if this boy attends and displays the same behaviour. I had made my mind up to speak to the vicar and his wife (who run the Wednesday church group).

Having read a comment in another thread where the mum felt that the church she attends treated her and her child badly as they told her son off for bad behaviour, I wonder if speaking to the vicar is reasonable.

As Christians we should be tollerant, and as a church as a whole we need to be tollerant of children's behaviour that isn't 'perfect' because it will put off families attending the church. I myself have faced the rolling of eyes and tutting of older (age 60+) parisheners when my children have played after the service. Certainly my children's behaviour can be less than I would wish it to be but the boy today made my 3 look like angels - no mean feat!!!

However, surely it is for parents to teach their child that behaviour that is acceptable in one situation is not acceptable in another. The other thread regarding hiding behind a curtain etc is extreme - but this boy is hitting, kicking and shoving other children. He is very loud and shouts over the adults speaking.

Before you ask - no he doesn't have learning difficulties (because I asked around this morning).

So am I unreasonable to speak to the vicar?

OP posts:
SeaHouses · 15/04/2012 15:56

Who is in charge of the messy church? I think an adult needed to intervene and prevent the child from hitting others.

BackforGood · 15/04/2012 15:57

I don't see what it's got to do with the Vicar or his wife Confused.
I'm not 100% if this 'messy play' is supposed to be children accompanied by parents, or if it is more of a Junior Church type thing where parents are supposed to leave the children there.
If the first, then you, or one of other adults present needed to go and fetch his Dad and explain that parents are responsible for their children and that his son seemed over excited and was hurting other children. If the second, then it is down to the adults leading/supervising the children to deal with poo behaviour at the time.

BackforGood · 15/04/2012 15:57

er poo poor Grin

MrsKittyFane · 15/04/2012 15:57

How likely is it that this family will attend regularly? Missing church to settle in the nanny is a bit :o. Do they go to church or don't they?

Hullygully · 15/04/2012 15:58

You need an exorcism. He is clearly an imp of Satan.

My mate does cut price ones if you get your own flail. Bargain.

MrsKittyFane · 15/04/2012 15:59

So funny Hully Hmm

lisad123 · 15/04/2012 15:59

OP you need to get your judgey pants off ASAPAngry
As for private prep school not taking SN, they do, just because a child has SN it does not mean they are too stupid to do well on school AngryAngry

Itsjustafleshwound · 15/04/2012 15:59

a rude, bullying child is a rude bullying child and instead of making assumptions and getting other parties involved, going up to a parent in a polite, assertive way (regardless of what the do, who they are or what you think they earn!!!) and tell them that their child is misbehaving.

What they do with the info or how they deal with it, is not your business ...

hackmum · 15/04/2012 15:59

If the kid's that bad, it's almost certainly because he's been badly brought up (no boundaries, no discipline, yada yada yada) so talking to the parents won't do much good - though no harm in trying. Or, to take a kinder view, perhaps he's deeply disturbed by something. Is the mother alive?

What bothers me about the OP, though, is why none of the adults present (neither the group leader nor the other parents) told the boy off. Why not? What's wrong with a firm, "That's not how we behave around here"?

curiositykitten · 15/04/2012 16:00

Considering you say you don't know the family very well, you seem to know a lot about them. Or is it speculation and hearsay you are basing your judgement of their lifestyle on.

hackmum · 15/04/2012 16:01

Sorry, only just read about the mum helping the au pair settle. Oh dear.

hathorinareddress69 · 15/04/2012 16:01

I agree with Lisad123.

My son has SN. (well he's a grown up now if it makes any difference)

He attended mainstream schools.

And has gone on to university.

SN does not = stupid.

Or badly behaved for that matter.

lisad123 · 15/04/2012 16:02

She knows enough to know they are rich and therefore clearly have nothing to do with their child Hmm

MrsKittyFane · 15/04/2012 16:02

curiosity Church communities are often overrun with gossip very close.

pingu2209 · 15/04/2012 16:03

Love the Hullygully comment - no I don't think I will be seeing his head spin around any time soon.

They attend the church - they don't attend weekly - but then neither do I. Just because you don't attend the weekly Sunday morning church service does not make you less of a Christian. I host the weekly home group but now regularly take my boys to rugby on a Sunday morning so I can't attend as much as I previously did.

Yes the dad should have been pulled in from the cafe church/other room, but it is difficult to speak to someone on that basis.

My eldest has SN and I would not leave him alone. I go to ensure he can understand what he is supposed to be doing in the activities (not his behaviour). However, I usually end up telling one or both of my boys off at least half a dozen times when I am there - but I am 'bad cop' in my household.

OP posts:
OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 15/04/2012 16:04

This needs to be adressed in a sensible and adult way.

People getting all tutty about a big lad pushing small children around is not going to solve anything.

If noone tells the parents they cant do anything about his behaviour.
All groups have to have ground rules and these need to be explained to the child.
If he does have any SN this need to be taken into account but would not mean that he could continue hurting other children.

My son has SN. Its my job to explain to those who are going to care for him how this is likely to affect his behaviour. In his case (and in the case of many, many children with SN this does not include him hurting small children).

If it was his first time at the group this could have been his way of trying to deal with it. Lots of 7 year old boys lack the emotional maturity to fit in with a new group and tend to get boisterous. It needs to be dealt with so it doesnt become a habit.

He might me a lovely kid under all that showing off.

Whoneedssleepanyway · 15/04/2012 16:04

Jeepers OP for someone who "doesn't know his family at all" that is a hell of a lot of judgements assumptions you have just made there....

I find it ridiculous that nobody went and got the father, how much easier would it have been to have said, "Hi I think you are new here, I wonder if you could come and give us a hand next door as your son is getting a bit over excited and carried away"

I don't think your church sounds very welcoming at all if everyone stands around gossiping "asking around" about other people and not approaching them and talking to them.

SeaHouses · 15/04/2012 16:04

Who is responsible for the children during the messy play?

This whole thread seems to suggest that nobody is.

ripsishere · 15/04/2012 16:05

I would go whining to the vicar's wife and get her to sort it out. None of my business apart from not wanting my DD hurt.
Not really.
I would not hide behind someone elses skirts. I'd do my own dirty work. Approach the Dad if he comes back. Alternatively by next week, the AP will be fully settled in and she can supervise him.

bigTillyMint · 15/04/2012 16:05

Just because he goes to a big posh school and has filthy rich parents doesn't mean he can't have SN's. It could also be that his parents need some help with parenting skills.

Birdsgottafly · 15/04/2012 16:06

My children love going to this group, but there is no way I will let them go if this boy attends and displays the same behaviour.

The adults around this child should be upholding the acceptable bounderies.

Hitting is never alowed even when SN/LD's are present, the Club, will have a behaviour policy, this needs to be enforced.

The family may have been through a tough time and are looking for a new start, support should be given, especially from a Church.

It would be interesting to find out how he behaves in school, there may be something going on.

You could speak to the Vicar, from a concerned POV, Vicars do get involved in family difficulties.

Someone should have got off their arse and got one of the boys parents, instead of being open mouthed.

keepingupwiththejoneses · 15/04/2012 16:09

You are extremely judgemental and ignorant about sn,OP! Several points proving that are: - you asked around and because nobody knows it that means he has none! His parents have money so he has no sn! Because he goes to a good prep school he has no sn! Your first thought about his behaviour was he has sn!
Now to put you right. Any child no matter how well off or what class their parents are can have sn! Maybe his parents don't tell people because of ignorant people like you! Children with sn don't automatically have learning difficulties or behavioural problems. some children with sn and behavioural problem have very high IQ's and the behavioural problems come out because of the frustration. Children with with high IQ's and sn thrive in the smaller classes a good prep school would provide.
You maybe right in that he was just a brat but you are very wrong in you judgement of everything else.

Shanghaidiva · 15/04/2012 16:10

I sound jealous don't I?! I don't mean to be jealous, but I do wonder whether the parents are 'hands off' rather than 'hands on' and whether this is reflected in the boys behaviour. Also the parents are less likely to tackle their son's behaviour if requested. The dad didn't seem to be the kind of man who was used to having something negative spoken about him/or his.

How do you knowany of this? These are assumptions on your part. I don't really understand why someone didn't speak to the dad when the child was hitting other children and throwing things around.

Birdsgottafly · 15/04/2012 16:10

I didn't go to his dad as I don't know his family at all and it is always difficult, no matter what the situation, to speak to parents that you don't know about a child's behaviour

Someone should have been able to, otherwise there is no-one in the room fit enough to run the group.

This is an essential part of being able to work with childen and families.

ThatVikRinA22 · 15/04/2012 16:13

i would start by having a word with the dad to be honest and see what kind of reception you get.

my son has SN but i did not ever tolerate him being unruly or hurting anyone else. If it became apparent something was too much for him i took him home or removed him.

having SN is not an excuse, and i say that as the mother of an autistic child. Rights and wrongs still need to be taught or that family is asking for trouble.

have a quiet word with the boys parents, if that doesnt work then have a word with the powers that be.

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