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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask the vicar and his wife to speak to the parents of a 'new' very badly behaved boy

157 replies

pingu2209 · 15/04/2012 15:29

Today I went to church. We are regular church goers and today was their monthly family service held in the local secondary school, rather than within the church itself. There are 2 things going on: messy church for the children and cafe church for the adults.

The church still has another normal family service each month within the church, this service is different in that there is no singing and there is a lot of messy play activities with a Christian theme.

I really love my church. It is very friendly and a great mix of ages. There are all sorts of activities laid on for all the age groups.

However, today I was really shocked by the behaviour of one child at church whose family have only just started to attend the services. To be frank his behaviour totally spoiled the morning for me and my children.

The boy is about 7 or 8 and he was extremely unruely and agressive. He punched my 6 year old in the chest, kicked my 4 year old and kept pushing my (and other) children out of the way when he wanted to get to something. I finally snapped when he grabbed my 6 year old's jumper and started to throw it around and kick it across the hall. He had picked it up from a chair at the back of the hall, where I had put it folded up.

I watched him for a while opened mouthed at his behaviour and wondering why the parents wouldn't say anything. His father just sat there drinking coffee in another room and his mother wasn't there.

The very young children were shoved and pushed and at one point I had to see if a boy was okay because this one child had shoved him with his shoulder. He started to cry and went back to his mum in the other room. Then 2 other younger children asked to go back to their parents, but these 2 children I know well and they would normally stay.

After a while, other parents in the messy church started to make comments regarding the child's behaviour and were jokingly saying "I wonder who had Smarties for breakfast..." that kind of comment.

Eventually the leader of the messy church said that all the children were to go back to their parents in the cafe church (other room) and asked me to give the parents a 5 minute warning. I said that it was difficult as there was a talk being given to the parents. To which, the church leader said that she had no choice but to give the children back as it was becoming chaos. I had to agree with her - but it was all due to this one child!

I was then told that the boy in question was going to start going to the church group on a Wednesday evening during term time. My children love going to this group, but there is no way I will let them go if this boy attends and displays the same behaviour. I had made my mind up to speak to the vicar and his wife (who run the Wednesday church group).

Having read a comment in another thread where the mum felt that the church she attends treated her and her child badly as they told her son off for bad behaviour, I wonder if speaking to the vicar is reasonable.

As Christians we should be tollerant, and as a church as a whole we need to be tollerant of children's behaviour that isn't 'perfect' because it will put off families attending the church. I myself have faced the rolling of eyes and tutting of older (age 60+) parisheners when my children have played after the service. Certainly my children's behaviour can be less than I would wish it to be but the boy today made my 3 look like angels - no mean feat!!!

However, surely it is for parents to teach their child that behaviour that is acceptable in one situation is not acceptable in another. The other thread regarding hiding behind a curtain etc is extreme - but this boy is hitting, kicking and shoving other children. He is very loud and shouts over the adults speaking.

Before you ask - no he doesn't have learning difficulties (because I asked around this morning).

So am I unreasonable to speak to the vicar?

OP posts:
curiositykitten · 15/04/2012 15:31

You asked why his parents didn't say/do anything - then went on to say that his mother wasn't there, and his father was in another room!

Did anyone actually speak to either of his parents about his behaviour, or just tut and roll your eyes without giving the parents the chance to know how he was acting?

curiositykitten · 15/04/2012 15:32

Oh, and just because you "asked around" does NOT mean there are no difficulties.

bigTillyMint · 15/04/2012 15:34

It does sound like he may have some SN's, perhaps undiagnosed, as this is not usual behaviour for a child of this age.

Maybe the vicar will be able to have a sympathetic word with the parents and ascertain what can be done to support them and the boy with his behaviour.

lisad123 · 15/04/2012 15:34

Did no one talk to his parents?

lisad123 · 15/04/2012 15:35

He might not have SN, he might just be a little brat Grin

joanna2012 · 15/04/2012 15:36

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lolajane2009 · 15/04/2012 15:36

i would have confronted his father tbh during the service.

ToothbrushThief · 15/04/2012 15:36

I think you should speak to the adult in charge of the children's group and that person should speak to the parents carefully and sympathetically

It's got nothing to do with the vicar?

joanna2012 · 15/04/2012 15:37

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Itsjustafleshwound · 15/04/2012 15:37

It is a family service ... if you don't like speak to the parents, but don't start roping the vicar in to sorting out your battles ...

hathorinareddress69 · 15/04/2012 15:37

Why didn't someone go and speak to his parents?

And if he's new, his father or mother or carer may not have shared all his difficulties so "asking around" wouldn't necessarily uncover any SN.

johnthepong · 15/04/2012 15:38

Sounds like he has some kind of special needs (not the same thing as learning difficulties)
If he is new there- how would people know this about him?

Who is in charge of the children's activities? This is the person that needs to sort this out. Not you.

WorraLiberty · 15/04/2012 15:38

I don't know why SN even comes into it given the fact the other kids have a right not to be hurt by him.

Either way, why on earth didn't you go and get his Dad?

I would have approached him and said "Excuse me, could you come and have a word with your Son please, he's hurting other children and is damaging property over there."

Codandchops · 15/04/2012 15:41

Did anyone speak to the boy about his behaviour? Was he just plain over excited and inappropriate, my 9 year old with autism and adhd can be a bit lively (although he has never hit or kicked other children).

Not sure what you would expect the vicar to do, it needs dealing with in the room although I agree he sounds like hard work.Can you ask his Dad to attend the session with him for a while until he settles down?

MrsKittyFane · 15/04/2012 15:42

If he does have SN, he obviously needs help in social situations (from his parents).
If he is just plain unpleasant, he obviously needs help in social situations (from his parents).

See how it goes next week and speak up if it is not just a one off.

Solola · 15/04/2012 15:43

I would say that if you have a problem with this boy's behaviour on this or any other occasion then the first thing you should do is talk to his parents yourself.

If you don't think that they are taking the problem seriously or doing anything about his behaviour then it would be ok to go and talk about your concerns to whoever is in charge of these events. It's up to the Vicar and his wife how they decide to handle it then.

MrsKittyFane · 15/04/2012 15:45

Also, why didn't anyone go and get the dad (or Mum wherever she was)? The organisers could have said "Can you just come and sit with (your DS ) He seem a bit overexcited this morning."

lisad123 · 15/04/2012 15:46

Tbh both mine have SN, and I would certainly never leave them somewhere withouth discussing it with person in charge!Confused

cheesesarnie · 15/04/2012 15:47

why cant/didnt you say something to his dad?

pinkpyjamas · 15/04/2012 15:49

The person responsible for the children's group should have a quiet and tactful word with the boy's parent / parents, and say that he is welcome to be part of the group as long as one of them stays with him until he settles in.

It's their responsibility to ensure that he does not get the opportunity to hurt other children, whether he has special needs / learning difficulties or not.

It doesn't need to be a huge issue, and it doesn't need to be gossipped about.

'Asking around' he if has learning difficulties is making a big deal out of the whole scenario, imo - surely the child's parents would be the obvious people to ask!

Garliccheesechips · 15/04/2012 15:51

Maybe, just maybe...the child doesn't have special needs.
Maybe the child is just badly behaved. It happens.

Hmm

I think, OP, by all means have a word with the vicar. But I'd be wary of doing it until you see further evidence of the child's bad behaviour. He may have had a smartie smoothie and a litre of fanta.

LesAnimaux · 15/04/2012 15:52

If his parents weren't immediately near, he needed to be told how to behave.

SN, or not makes no difference. If he does have SN his parents need to stick close to him to make sure his behavior is socially acceptable

Speak to the vicar, if you like, but it's the way the family are handled over all that will make a difference.It takes a village, and all that, so your church could make the difference between this boy going off the rails or not. It sound like his parents need a bit of support.

bobbledunk · 15/04/2012 15:53

The parents weren't there so don't know how he was behaving, they need to be spoken to. It's unfair to expect other kids to be punching bags regardless of the potential excuses for his violent behaviour. At least one parent should be there to supervise him until he is safe around other children.

As for Christian tolerance, you should never teach your children to tolerate being on the receiving end of violent behaviour. They bring the attitudes you teach them into adulthood. You don't want them to end up in violent relationships because you taught them to feel abusers pain and indulge/excuse them.

pingu2209 · 15/04/2012 15:54

I didn't go to his dad as I don't know his family at all and it is always difficult, no matter what the situation, to speak to parents that you don't know about a child's behaviour.

I would go to the vicar's wife (rather than the vicar) as she runs most of the children and family activities. I wouldn't go to the leader to the messy church as the leader today isn't leader every month. The person to speak to would be the vicar's wife.

I wouldn't say anything until 'trying out' the Wednesday evening church group for a few weeks so see whether the boy attends, and if he does attend, what his behaviour is like.

The church we go to has a lot of families - at least 30 children regularly attend the church. I live in a wealthy area and a lot of the church parisheners are very wealthy (think millionaires). However, most of the family parisheners are not wealthy - ranging from living in the local council houses to living in 3/4 bed semis.

However, the dad of the boy in question is a very wealthy banker and drove to the church today in his porche and I know that his son goes to a 'named' private prep school and they have an au pair. I know this because the mother was apparently not at church because she was helping the new au pair settle.

I sound jealous don't I?! I don't mean to be jealous, but I do wonder whether the parents are 'hands off' rather than 'hands on' and whether this is reflected in the boys behaviour. Also the parents are less likely to tackle their son's behaviour if requested. The dad didn't seem to be the kind of man who was used to having something negative spoken about him/or his.

Re all the comments re if the family are new then how do you know there are no SN issues - your are right - of course. My 'asking around' is not going to get an accurate answer. But to be frank - he just came across as a brat who needed some bloody good discipline. I also couldn't see the top prep school he goes to accepting a child with SN - because they live and die on their results!

OP posts:
Heswall · 15/04/2012 15:56

So what if he has gopt special needs, i have the special need not to have my childfren hurt does that count for anything these days ?