To feel a bit miffed about "I can't shake hands with women for religious reasons"

[Hopefullyrecovering]

Which is what was said to me today, in a work context.

I have never heard of this before and googled it and apparently it is true that certain very orthodox forms of religion prohibit men shaking women's hands.

So I am torn between my inner liberal need for religious toleration, and thinking it's a damnfool sort of religion that prohibits a man from shaking a woman's hand and not just a little bit sexist too.

So, AIBU to feel miffed?

Someone who is unable to treat both genders with equality in the workplace has no place in that workplace. Why not refrain from shaking anyone's hand rather than discriminate so rudely in the workplace.

Do such orthodox religions demand same sex doctors, dentists, etc?

Never mind shaking hands, how about

Norwegian comedian Shabana Rheman lifts Mulla Krekar during a televised debate.

It is the norm for you Hopefully but not for him. So why is your way of doing things any more acceptable than his way?

It is not for me to decide how other cultures/religions should act, unless we are talking about things that are outside this county's legal system.

But customs that are not illegal, are just differences in how people do things.

This is common in a lot of cultures, actually, I don't think it's such a big deal, and I don't find it sexist either. It could be argued that you were being culturally insensitive by even offering a hand.

DH is neither Muslim nor Jewish, but people don't shake hands with the opposite sex in his culture (DH does though). It doesn't bother me, it's just different.

I think verylittlecarrot is right in that the way to avoid any conflict or confusion would be to just not shake hands with anyone. Much easier.

I think some orthodox religions do go to their own kind for dentistry, gp's etc. If the possibly can. And, its up to them, isnt it?

Other peoples customs dont offend me in the work place. I actually thrive on it. Im so glad to work in such a varied environment.

a bit more info

Seems clear that it is NOT a superiority issue.

Is it really as simple as religious or cultural observance? I want to be tolerant and respectful in every aspect of my life, but aren't there wider implications? I don't think we can say that it's as simple as let it be, especially when it equally makes some people feel offended. There needs to be respect from all sides. I don't know the answer but I dont' think the answer is just respect it and move on. People are offended so it needs to be debated from different perpectives and not just those who observe the practice. If that makes sense!

But not shaking hands with anyone would be totally unacceptable in my workplace. Totally unacceptable. It is the norm to shake hands. That's partly why it was a shock.

verylittlecarrot - yes, this often extends to not seeing female dentists or doctors. This was the sexism I encountered. It was really upsetting at times. So I do find the division between how the sexes are treated a frightening one.

I respect people's cultural values, but I don't respect it when it discriminates on something the other person cannot help.

Billy I'm not just referring to Jews, there are other cultural views. I personally experienced a Muslim woman refuse a male colleague's hand because he was a man. I don't know the in's and out's. The male was not offended but I was unsure why she wouldn't shake his hand but would mine. I can only guess it was because I was a woman and he was a man.

Brightness falls - Its pretty upsetting to have someone get angry (and yes, this happened to me) because they find out they will be seeing a female healthcare worker. Embrace this if you want, but I really don't think it should be encouraged.

im with you brightnessfalls diversity shouldnt be frowned upon , why should a person feel offended by an unshook hand Different stokes for different folks and all that

If its in a hospital setting then no-one can specify who they see. I agree. When it comes to their own gp's etc then, in my experience, alot of really religious people will chose their own ( and I mean orthodox, not just religious)

why should a person feel offended by an unshook hand

Why indeed! Why not just accept that shaking hands with the opposite sex is prohibited for some people, and leave it at that. It isn't a personal slight, and you lose nothing by not having your hand shaken!

till you remember that it is their mental problem

Was this serious?

Bucket But why would a woman refusing to shake a man's hand be an issue of inferiority neccessarily? I think (and trust me when I say my knowledge is very limited) that the Islamic reasons are similar to the Jewish ones. That is it not proper for a man and woman to touch outside of family.

There are MANY things in all religions and some cultures that I take exception to, and am a feminist without a shadow of a doubt. I just don't think this particular custom is an issue.

The issue of hospitals is an interesting one. What happens if, say, a male follower of a religion with this practice is a patient, and the doctor performing the medical examination/ surgeon doing an operation / nurse changing dressings is female?

Billy, I don't know, I guess I'm not very educated and I need to learn more. It may of course not be inferiority. It just feels uncomfortable and alien that a woman, or a man for that matter would not touch me because of my sex. I think about other implications. I do try to be respectful but it's not just about shaking someone's hand is it. There are many other knock on implications. I've heard lots of different arguments. I'm not at all convinced by many of them.

I think the issue here is that the superstitious bloke should simply refuse to shake anyone's hand rather than making a point out of refusing to touch women's hands. While it is reasonable for his desire not to shake hands to be respected, it is also reasonable for him to respect civilised people's objection to discrimination against women.

It was not personal. It was not done with the intention to "make you feel offended". Perhaps if you researched handshakes you wouldn't take it so personally or feel unworthy.

I believe that no one should touch me if I don't want them to. Am I wrong?

There are cultural norms though, and I suppose the crux of the issue here is whether individual (religious) beliefs should be allowed to override the cultural norm.

If a man walks into a business meeting and shakes the hand of everyone except the woman in the room, he has discriminated unacceptably in a working environment. And been rude and disrespectful. Not to mention inappropriate, if the rationale behind that practice truly is based upon the idea that a platonic handshake has undertones of sexuality only insofar as the woman is concerned.

If a male boss refuses to shake the hands of the women in his team but will shake the mens' hands, this is bias.

Neither practice should be tolerated in the workplace.

If someone refused to shake hands with anyone not of the same race this would be equally abhorrent to me.

Well, no. For you the cultural norm is to shake hands. For him it is not. In business the cultural norm is to respect the wishes of the client.

for the doctor example, if it is a neccessity then obviously you can see a dr of the opposite sex, no one is going to tell you "sorry you have to die as you are not allowed to see a male dr" but if you hvae a choice it is better to see a doctor of the same sex, due to shyness in front of the opposite sex which is seen as a praiseworthy trait in orthodox religions.

and personally i cant understand how it is sexist? i mean if a woman doesnt shake a mans hand is that sexist too? does that mean she is thinking the man is dirty and inferior? or is it that women are so ingrained with this sense that men think they are inferior that they put that reason on to every interaction, but men wont even contemplate the woman thinks he is inferior if she wont shake his hand because society doesnt tell him he is inferior.

as for religious beliefs over riding cultural norms. It is not the cultural norm to cover your head, so should all muslim hijab wearers and orthodox jews, amish etc uncover their heads? it is not cultural norm for men to have beards so should we ensure all men are clean shaven or designer stubble? it is cultural norm for women to wear make up and high heels to work so should we enforce this?

cultural norms change.