To feel a bit miffed about "I can't shake hands with women for religious reasons"

[Hopefullyrecovering]

Which is what was said to me today, in a work context.

I have never heard of this before and googled it and apparently it is true that certain very orthodox forms of religion prohibit men shaking women's hands.

So I am torn between my inner liberal need for religious toleration, and thinking it's a damnfool sort of religion that prohibits a man from shaking a woman's hand and not just a little bit sexist too.

So, AIBU to feel miffed?

Can I just add, without meaning to offend anyone here, a person observing their religion may choose not to shake hands with the opposite sex and upset that other person by not doing so. At the same time, a person who chooses to shake hands and other displays of affection may upset the religious one on the basis that they may feel very uncomfortable with that. It is not actually just down to religion but also down to culture.

Ilovehorridhenry - But how do you know this wasn't an issue? The chap I met today, for sure he will think this is not an issue, because I did the very English thing of saying, 'Oh, of course. I'm sorry, I didn't think'

Well i didn't think because I didn't know, but i am thinking now. It did make me feel somehow unworthy of a handshake.

YANBU

But this one sort of got to me. I think it is sexist, because he could shake my (male) junior's hand. Just not mine. It felt a bit horrible, to wander in, hand extended, all friendly and stuff and get that response.

Your training is at fault (if you have never encountered this in RL), you should never expect to shake someone's hand.

I thought that it was common knowledge that some cultures/religions have different customs, for those in a public facing role, it should be.

Considering that handshakes used to signify entering into a binding contract, and that was the point of them (a gentleman's agreement) they have no place in modern society.

You sound a very reasonable and considered person ILove. I do understand what you are saying, but having encountered a great deal of sexism in my job from, I'm sorry to say, Muslim men, I think the whole thinking is wrong.

I used to work in Kentish Town and many men would not see me as a client for work because of the fact that I was a woman. It did affect me quite badly.

If he was polite and said sorry that he couldnt then, it wouldnt bother me.

unworthy of a handshake really ? I think a hello how are you and perhaps a pleasant smile or nod means much more than a handshake , although in my day to day life i dont shake many hands so i guess its a different enviroment ,

isn't it passover today or around this time? so was probably timely rather than something that he would do everyday

YANBU. Some aspects of some religions seem overtly sexist to me, and appear designed to keep women "in their place". And it riles me when religious respect only works in one direction- people are expected to show respect towards particular religions, even when those religions not only show no respect to certain groups, they actively discriminate against them.

Don't know how you'd deal with it though. Maybe, as you were (if I've understood correctly) the senior person in the meeting, say "OK, shall we dispense with handshakes then and all take a seat". To be honest, if he did then go on to shake hands with your male colleague, that comes across as actively disrespectful to you- it would have been better for nobody to shake hands, rather than one person to be left feeling "untouchable". I can understand why it would feel like a deliberate snub, and why you'd feel undermined.

well it shouldnt make you feel unworthy at all HR because as I just said to you, its got nothing to do with you personally has it? an orthodox jew and a muslim are not allowed to have physical contact with the other sex unless it's a wife/husband or family member. That's the religion, and whether people like it or not, that's how people choose to live their lives.

Listen, Im english too and I understand how it is to make these kind of little mistakes with people from different backgrounds. All my family expect kisses and cuddles, which is fine, but that goes for the non blood relatives too, and Islamically Im not permitted to have physical contact with them. Most of them are totally accepting of this and understand it, but I can see from both viewpoints how it looks to some. Anyway, you are completely worthy of a handshake!!! have one from me :)

Hopefullyrecovering, I think you have hit the nail on the head with your 23:14 post. Whatever the reasons given for not shaking hands, your reaction to it (you felt unworthy) is something that you should give a some thought to.

Wow, seriously, this is absurd. I cannot reconcile these differences in this day and age. It really doesn't feel real that we would accept someone see us as women ad so inferior that we are not worthy if touch iir that we should not touch someone because they are the opposite sex. It truly feels absurd.

But really it is a strange custom to shake hands with people isn't it? Touching other people's manky germy hands. And don't get me started on the French

It is just a different custom to the one you are used to, the same as it would be if you were greeted by someone in a traditional Japanese way, for example.

Vive le difference, and all that

Did you really feel unworthy or were you embarrassed by his refusal?

But we shake hands all the time at my work. All the time. It's expected. Not with colleagues, but clients. It's absolutely the norm. Every meeting begins and ends with a handshake.

I meet a lot of jewish men in my work. I thought I was totally acclimatised in that I take care to order in kosher refreshments, or take them to kosher restaurants. But obviously there are degrees of orthodoxy, and this is the first time I have ever encountered anyone not shaking my hand.

It isn't that women are inferior though, it is that men and women who are not related should not touch. Not that women are dirty and men can't touch them.

Considering that handshakes used to signify entering into a binding contract, and that was the point of them (a gentleman's agreement) they have no place in modern society

Of course they have a place in modern society!!

Just because they used to mean something totally different...doesn't mean things haven't evolved.

A handshake is a sign of welcome and is very much a part of British culture, like it or not.

Never heard this one, but do think YAbu for being upset about it. It's not your hand it's every woman's hand!
It's his belief, it's not doing you any harm and therefore I can't see why your wouldnt respect it.

I wouldnt overthink it. I get that its a surprise if you arent used to meeting orthodox men in day to day life but, if you live and work in a very mixed area you soon get used to it!

Billy but I think its not to Di with custom its specifically to do with gender and who is superior. Or am I wrong?

air kissing is obviously the way forward

bucketbetty .. this has got nothing to do with women and 'inferiority'

It's is simply religious observance. Everyone has a right to the way they choose to live their lives. Nobody's forcing you to become a strict jew or muslim so that you cant touch people's hands.

I would find it hard not to feel insulted/rejected tbh and would find it very rude. Practice which is discriminatory like that has no place in the workplace today.

there is talk of different cultures being sexist and to some it is repressive but isnt it more polite to accept that this is some peoples way of life than be offended by it ?

not polite i meant tolerant .