To feel a bit miffed about "I can't shake hands with women for religious reasons"

[Hopefullyrecovering]

Which is what was said to me today, in a work context.

I have never heard of this before and googled it and apparently it is true that certain very orthodox forms of religion prohibit men shaking women's hands.

So I am torn between my inner liberal need for religious toleration, and thinking it's a damnfool sort of religion that prohibits a man from shaking a woman's hand and not just a little bit sexist too.

So, AIBU to feel miffed?

Human touch is comforting, as a muslim woman I can still get that comfort from fifty percent of population and my male relaatives, so I'm not really missing out on anything.

I would be concerned in a healthcare situation (as someone above said students refusing to touch other sexes). When mum died, she was in hospital and had doctors and nurses 'working' on her for a long long time. She had a DNR and everyone knew, but that is a other story. If I thought that any member of the team hesitated for one split second just because she was female, I would be very very upset.

If a woman or man fell over in the street, or a child was crying, why hesitate. It is a other human being.

Belief is belief, but a human being is a human being. Sex is something else. If we can't treat each other with respect - I think refusing a handshake is more about you (the shakee) feeling that it is a violation of you and your beliefs, than the shaker (not wanting to out them in a moral situation).

Try to remember, in church (CofE anyway) part of the service is to handshake/hug your brother/sister in Christ, and this is in no way sexual. It is demonstrating that we are all children of the same god, and should treat each others as we would our own brothers and sisters. I do get annoyed when people equate morals with culture or belief. I have heard stories about people of a variety of religions that would make your hair curl - and if I asked anyone to guess which religion/or none they were, you couldn't guess.

I try to live by the 'do as you would to others' code. Ok, it doesn't always work out that way, but I try to understand other peoples beliefs and would like them to try to understand me. I they don't, we'll thats them and I won't try to beat them over the head with it. Some people - an any/all religion - try to do this, but I don't believe that you can 'make' people agree with your beliefs.

Here end endeth the lesson for today, brothers and sisters. Sorry it's a bit rambling, just pondering life, death and the universe today (one of my parents anniversaries today, so it gets you thinking).

Gok Wan is..... just odd.

He was extremely rude to refuse to shake your hand but then shake your junior's. If he wants to avoid shaking women's hands in a business context, where it would normally be expected, he should avoid shaking hands at all.

Exactly - I wasn't saying that I would go about hugging folk willy-nilly, or that other people should do the same, just that it is another POV that is a public demonstration of 'brother/sisterhood' of a particular religion. No better, no worse, but should be understood and respected (touching being ok, not necessarily hugging), as other practices are.

I like the 'pious idiot' phrase! It sums up exactly some people I have met (not necessarily religious - often just self-important types). I was at a wedding once where the MIL was very restrained when the mullah wouldn't let her sign the register of marriage because she was 'only a woman'. This was in front of the whole wedding party. He was from a different 'branch' of Islam (so different culture) than her/her son (where a woman can do this) and he was quite rude about it. He also tried to pocket the (male) signatory's mont blanc pen after signing!

I think some people are missing the context here. If someone only shakes hands with half the people at a BBQ, that is their prerogative, although I would think it insensitive and rude if they shook hands with the "acceptable" and declined the "unacceptable".

However, "I will only shake hands with one gender" in the workplace: this act now sits at one end of a spectrum which might include "I will only hold meetings with one gender" and ends with "I will pay bonuses to only one gender", "I will award contracts only to one gender".

With the exception of personal and intimate care which can be private and gender specific, the law overrides religion regarding gender discrimination in the workplace.

a man who sees a woman drowing and doesn't save her because she is of the opposite sex is a 'chasid shotah', a pious idiot

So when we get to the fundamentals, the law says "actually, this bit is bonkers: ignore it". Brilliant!

purits the law says in situations of neccessity you can touch the other sex, in Islam it also says in situations of neccessity you can eat pork, or deny Islam, or lie etc. I am not sure if Judaism is the same but I am assuming so.

From your description of him you probably were quite fortunate that he didn't shake your hand!

thats very interesting, i might go and see if islam has the same rules about that.

Mrs. I lived in Golders Green and also have a few friends in the diamond industry.

verylittlecarrot, how come kissing colleagues of only one gender isn't on your 'spectrum'? this has now been asked three times, so it clearly isn't only my experience; have been in a lot of meetings where I get the 'mwah mwah' 2 cheek kiss, and the men present shake hands with each other. There's a difference.... but to me the greeting is social, even in a business context; it doesn't affect how seriously I may be taken in the meeting which follows.

Similarly, I see handshaking as part of the social interaction preceding the business; and so long as the person with the religious constraint on his or her actions is polite about it and does his/her best to ensure that the other party is not embarrassed or made uncomfortable, ie he or she does his bit to oil the social wheels, that is enough.

lol can you imagine a man making a thread..."aibu to feel miffed with men who wont kiss me on the cheeks" - they should either kiss both men and women or no one at all, sexism! are my cheeks too dirty for them to kiss? do they think my face is contaminated?

But you could imagine, French colleague came to the office and kissed everyone except me!

kissing didn't hit my radar because I'm married to a Frenchman...
I'm quite used to seeing male/male kisses

However I think kissing in a workplace is not entirely conventional, and even perhaps borders on unacceptable in a professional environment, unlike handshaking.

If it was a religious reason, and the person humbly explained, I wouldn't be miffed.

It wouldn't be my sort of religion, but I accept that some people don't even celebrate Christmas, can you believe it! have beliefs very different from my own.

I apologise if you found that offensive, but it is my experience and that of a lot of Jews. (DAvid Baddiel, Matt Lucas, Jason Isaacs all speak of this)

Never ceased to be amazed at the absolute total bollocks human beings allow themselves to belive and practise in The name of religion and so called customs.

Of all the laughs on mumsnet this has been the best.

Live long and prosper and nano nano. Off to become a Vulcan and must of course write my bible, Koran, Torah blah blah
and need to find new ways of controlling and humiliating you pesky women.