To feel a bit miffed about "I can't shake hands with women for religious reasons"

[Hopefullyrecovering]

Which is what was said to me today, in a work context.

I have never heard of this before and googled it and apparently it is true that certain very orthodox forms of religion prohibit men shaking women's hands.

So I am torn between my inner liberal need for religious toleration, and thinking it's a damnfool sort of religion that prohibits a man from shaking a woman's hand and not just a little bit sexist too.

So, AIBU to feel miffed?

No, they are declining them because part of the job is meeting and greeting clients, which involves shaking hands. They took on Muslim interns who would shake hands and the managers were often Muslim too.

Hopefully recovering, I understand exactly where you are coming from. Many years ago I had a liberal Jewish boyfriend. He did not follow any of the religious rules but he did have a wide range of friends of varying levels of orthodoxy. We once went to a garden party at the house of one of his orthodox friends and when a chap I had not met before joined our group I introduced myself and held out my hand to shake his. He literally jumped backwards as if I had tried to assault him, and offered no explanation whatsoever (he was English, no language difficulties, and in his twenties with a job outside the Jewish community). I was mortified and absolutely livid with my boyfriend for not warning me about this; in fact I still believe that he should have apologised to both of us on the spot for not having explained. He later gave the same explanation as a poster linked to here earlier- all male/female touching is seen as a dangerous precursor to sexual intimacy. How utterly disrespectful to women to believe that we all want to shag any man who touches us, and how pathetic of a religion to teach its men that they cannot be trusted to control their sexual urges. Plus I was very obviously with my partner! Mindless and inflexible adherence to dogmatic rules is one of the things about religion that angers me the most.

As an aside, after the bollocking I gave said boyfriend he then made a point of warning me about all sorts of Jewish etiquette - my favorite was on our way to a party at a kosher home - "whatever you do, don't pour the wine for yourself or anyone else". The reason being that his friends would worry that I might accidentally turn it into the blood of Christ.
He was well aware that I was a very committed atheist but that was not the point, apparently....

Party was shit. Relationship is long over..

And i agree/disagree with you soup

'If you feel insulted by someone's polite and apologetic explanation then that is your problem, not theirs.'

Yes, i agree that i am the one insulted so therefore i have the problem. However, I disagree that any polite explanation of offensive beliefs should therefore be accepted. I have had people politely, and often apologetically, explain their racist or homophobic beliefs, it doesn't mean i have to happily accept it.

And when you are a graduate who has been out of work for 2 years and you refuse to shake hands at interview then you aren't doing yourself any favours.

who said women want to shag every man that to0uches you, or men cant control their sexual urges?
of course they dont and they can and they are expected to. however that doesnt just include actual sex.

Sex is what helps our species to continue, don't why religion is so obsessed with it really.

Is it more of men not wanting to touch a woman's hand than a woman not wanting to shake a mans hand? Just wondering, as its all this 'touching leading to intimacy/sex thing'.

It's never happened to me, but I would find it odd in the uk, but probably not offensive. I would find it offensive of someone disregarded what I said or ignored my opinions because I was a woman. This only happened to me once - and with a white, English female colleague. She asked me a question, I answered, then she turned to a male temp (who was working for me) and asked the same question. I knew he had no idea (it was quite a technical question) and he said 'dunno but it's probably what Front said'. I actually had a postgrad in the subject asked, and a few years experiencs under my belt!

I find shaking hands odd, even after 15 years in business, but love a nice hug from a friend (male or female). Kissing (in the French way - so people you know, but not particularly well) is a bit awkward for me too. We don't 'do' kissy kissy in Scotland (well not when I was growing up anyway). I probably leap back when any of French friends dads go in for a peck!

Oh and a colleague of mine was doing work with a committee of Muslim teachers (advising on financial banking matters). She had no problem working with them, and they all shook her hand with no problems and treated her with respect.

At DP's graduation from uni last year, some of the muslim students wore gloves. I think it was VERY rude!

Now that is rude in the uk. I always take of my gloves from my freezing hands when shaking hands with the Head on the school steps. And I suffer from very very cold hands.

I think the 'handshake' issue is really interesting as outside of 'business' situations & interviews people rarely shake hands even here in England; & most Southern English, mainly working class people (of all races; athiest or any religion) who i grew up with seem to dread having to shake hands with other people.
Maybe because it is enforced touching of people you wouldn't normally even speak to... or because various sources say that 'the way you shake hands conveys your personality' - who wants to be judged by a handshake, really?
In fact handshakes can be an intimidating experience that a lot of people dislike or try to avoid.. just like i hate kissing as a social greeting, bleurghh.
In fact a 'hello, how are you?' or similar should be all that is needed.. not touching. (Unless you are a healthcare worker obviously).
The funniest thing is when i say 'alright?' to a more 'posh' person, meaning 'hello'; & they automatically think i'm asking how they are.. actually i recommend it as a greeting if you want a rich posh man to talk to you it works every time.. ;-)

Funnily enough, the men i know who hate handshakes are the same men who will happily hug on the football pitch or get a bit too tactile after some Stella..

Latara AI have a totally different experience - all non religious & christian, white and black, working class people i know always shake hands. My dad and DP do everytime they see each other, DP does with everyone he knows, all male friends do it, dad and all family members do it. I don't think i have ever been out with men, on a non business occasion, when they don't do it.

I think greeting without some form of contact feels stilted. All the women i know kiss each other. And the women and men kiss too.

Perhaps it's a generational thing. How old are you?

35. I just wonder if it's the area i live in.. To the SW but i don't want to be more specific.. & it's the actual WC locals, mainly those over 25-ish who have never lived away from the area eg. not even to go to uni. There are lots of 'incomers' from the rest of the UK, & from abroad now. They aren't so reserved; the difference is noticeable. Aged 24 i started a course at the local uni, & encountered students (mainly the posher ones) from other areas who kissed & hugged as a greeting, to me it was odd. Now i'm ok with hugging but not kissing people who aren't related, i just feel uncomfortable.

@Latara.Never, ever move to France. You won't enjoy it...

YABU, I met a lady last year at work who declined shaking hands with her male lecturers (RS dept) for religious reasons - I admired her for it and I would love it if my daughters were as respectful as this.

MrsM As you will actually know the answer rather than coming up with random internet nonsense could you please explain what the results of shaking hands with a member of the opposite sex are for members of your religion?

Hopefullyrecovering

YANBU to have felt the way you did and TBH it was completely unnecessary to apologise although I quite understand why you did (flustered by the terse response to your outstretched hand).

I would have probably done the same thing out of sheer surprise.

He was the one who should have explained, in a civilised manner not simply say " I can't shake hands with women for religious reasons "

Latara How odd that our experiences are so different. I am from West London, have lived in South London and East London and am 35 and i find the exact opposite. All men/women i meet want to kiss me or shake hands with DP (and not just because we are fabulous :) )

So if you're gay you can touch people you may want to sleep with?????

I can't say I touched many men while working! Maybe I was in the wrong field...

There was a time in this country when women were considered to be 'dirty'. for instance, after giving birth to babies, they had to go to church for a service called the Churching of Women (cleansing of women). Childbirth (had sex 9 months previously) was considered to be 'dirty'. It could be that those who see the shaking of women's hands by a man is equally unclean.