to think dd's teacher was maybe over-reacting a tad?

[Northernlurker]

Apparently dd has been 'very rude' today as per the message from teacher via after school club. Very rude consists of not listening to story but talking to friends and then saying 'no' when told to stop and 'no' when told to move. Now I agree this is very rude and the teacher obviously dealt with it at length because dd was in floods of tears when collected by after school club. I have spoken to dd and she was talking because the book was one we have at home and she was telling her friends as much. At the end of a hot day, at the end of term her attention is shot to pieces as is that of most of the other kids. AIBU to think that a message home about this infraction was overkill. She didn't get a warning, she didn't get a timeout - and really what am i supposed to do about this? i speak to dd about her day every day. i am clear about what is expected but seeing as she's a stubborn 4 who has been at school less than a term i don't expect miracles. Frankly impressed we've got this far.

Or should I be grovelling tomorrow?

No, not Stepford. The place I lived in in the US was the anti-Stepford, in fact about as far from Stepford as you could imagine no matter what way you looked at it.

''...but they usually move on when they find that either things don't change because of the tears, the staff help them move on from their impasse or they are distracted by something else.'

Do you mean in a creative-woo-faffy way there? Surely you are not advocating taking the time to 'work around' some inescapable fact?'

I'm very woo-faffy, do all that individualised learning and have a particular interest in sutistic spectrum conditions and EAL.
I have a windchime and herbs in the outside area attached to my classroom and am pleased when small people from my school hug me in the supermarket. I am also an expert on dinosaurs and the more obscure aspects of fairies.
As my DD would say

I worked as a TA with a primary school teacher who treated the DCs appallingly IMO.

She often upset the DCs. She really didn't know how to engage them and was much too strict. She was also more interested in appearances than what was really going on. The bright kids got bored and the disruptive kids more so. She had obvious favourites and once told me she thought one of the 5 year olds was a little bitch .

She was pulled up by OFSTED for her reception class being "too formal"

I'm not saying your DD's teacher necessarily is like this, but just that it would ring warning bells for me. Not all teachers are good at their jobs! Before I worked with this teacher, every primary school teacher I had met had been a basically good person. Also I have loads of friends who are teachers and they are wonderful, warm, professional people. But this particular teacher was definitely in the wrong job, and I hate to think how she must have affected some of the DCs.

So what do all the other parents of children in the class think about the teacher who has been in charge of their children for 7 months? Do they think of her as the enemy and overly harsh? Or are they all bad wicked parents who believe in smacking?

There is no way of knowing what they think. There is no way of knowing if their children have been told off and ended up crying. They may well be parents who believe in smacking. Until they post here, we can't speculate.

Heaven Help me. According to some of the posters comments I am probably going to be shown to have appalling parenting skills. My nearly 4 year old starts Reception in September. He is delightful, charming, cheeky. He is mostly very sunny and very happy. If however, he is tired and/or a little under the weather or if he just feels like it for no particular reason he can also be incredibly stubborn. And "no" can still be for him a pretty favoured word. I use various methods of parenting as mentioned by Northernlurker to teach his manners/behaviour. In fact I use the same methods I use with my nearly 6 year old. My DD who last year won her year's award for courtesy. The DD who is rules conscious, eager to please, a delight to teach. So I clearly have some merit at teaching manners/behaviour. Same parents. Different children. I have no doubt I am going to be having conversations with DS's teachers about his stubbornness. I am having to learn different methods to deal with it myself. However that does not make me a bad parent. the fact that a 3, 4 or even 5 year old is not perfectly behaved at all times does not equate to bad parenting FFS!
Northernlurker - I think the teacher may not have handled it brilliantly but you have done the right thing in supporting the school. From what you have said I would also be keeping an eye on what other upsets the teacher causes your DD - if there is another "possible over-reaction" from this teacher I would be considering having a chat before parents evening - along the lines of "what can we do as a parent-teacher team to help DD learn /improve her behaviour without causing her distress"

I thought we would have problems with DD at school, whose first word was "no", and who found that more than adequate for the next 6 months. But she has apparently always been completely cooperative for her teachers. Ogre

Phew.

Phone...

Oh dear lord what a total fuss over nothing!

Child was rude to teacher

Teacher tells child off

Child cries

I'm sure everyone will come out of this unharmed and without the need for years of expensive therapy

Dust - I don't want to shatter your illusion of me as cuddly anything goes mother but.....actually I have smacked all my dcs at some point.

Not read thread (big sin I know) but bloody hell I thought northern's dd must be 14 but 4? Sounds like the teacher completely blew it up out of proportion and is stressed at end of term.

Have just read the whole thread and agree totall with Mathsanxiety. You can teach my son any time. :)

What many people here seem to be foregetting is that 4 year olds are simply little people. They have their own personalities and teachers ( and they have chosen the profession) should be able to work out pretty quickly how to work WITH each child in their class in order to help them to achieve their potential, not only academically but socially/emotionally.

In my experience, even some very lovely, kind warm teachers can fail children terribly because they simply do not UNDERSTAND behaviour. One hat does not fit all with children/people of any age. Relationship building and EFFECTIVE communication are key.

OP I really hope your DD's teacher improves. She doesn't sound inspiring or inspired in the least!!

A teacher who makes a child cry has failed unless her aim has been to make that child cry

Substitute 'teacher' for 'parent' and we have all failed many, many more times than the average teacher!

Northernlurker I bet you are wondering how the thread ended up like this! Term is now over and hopefully it will all be forgotten in 2 weeks. Happy holiday!

Wow math you're spot-on.

northern you have my support but math is more articulate.

I would be annoyed if my child behaved like this, end of term or not, and wasn't reprimanded. In fact, I would be pretty horrified if my child refused to do what a teacher asked of her in this setting.

Have just read the whole thread and agree totall with Mathsanxiety. You can teach my son any time.

AFAIK, Mathanxiety is not a teacher.

No idea how I can tell........

What's wrong with making a rude insolent child cry?

Yeah - you're right ariadne. If a four year old can't grasp the huge step change that is starting school, out of synch with all but two other pupils, within the relatively brief timeframe of three months, in a year at school that exists precisely to ease that school transition in the first place (and is called "reception" for that very reason) then the only logical thing to do is reduce her to tears.

Give me strength. I'm hiding this thread now, NL. And really, if I were you, I'd do the same. It only goes to show how off beam these threads can get with relation to real life. People like to think they deal in hard facts - but actually it's just the female equivalent of cock-waving.

I think Mathanxiety's posts make it fairly obvious she's not a teacher, Feenie! She wouldn't last 5 minutes...

Knowitall, the thing is, parents and teachers are not doing the same job, so for a child to cry while being cared for by a parent is a different matter. A teacher who sends a child home or on to after school club in tears has failed. A teacher who thinks that having a bawling child in the classroom is preferable to a quiet, busy, orderly room is one who is not just failing the crying child but also the other children, who will be distressed and distracted.

A parent has a different role. And speaking from experience, a parent who found that her child was regularly in floods of tears would probably try to refine her approach because the alternative would mean putting up with a godawful racket a lot of the time.

'I don't think a teacher expecting a 4 year to do as they're told, when asked, and then reprimanding that child for deliberately ignoring the request is what most people would call harsh measures is it? Is it, really?'

LeQ, it is both harsh and completely unrealistic, and if reprimands that result in tears are the sum total of that teacher's bag of tricks, I am sorry for the entire class, because that makes for a very unpleasant and negative learning environment for everyone.

'What's wrong with making a rude insolent child cry?'

I keep on getting the impression here that there are people on this thread who don't actually like children. (No idea how I can tell).

I can tell that there are a good many non-teachers on this thread and in the case of others, I sincerely hope that you are not teachers. I'm not a teacher, but I have seen good teachers in action with each one of my 5 DCs. Far from not lasting five minutes, the teachers whose work I am familiar with and whose approach I have described here have put in between them over 80 years in the classrooms they run. I know the difference between a good teacher and one who doesn't belong in a classroom with four year olds. Clearly there are too many posters here who have very low expectations of your children's early years teachers if you think the approach of this teacher was even remotely acceptable.

sheesh!
storm
teacup.

Fgs the child is only 4 and has been in school for only a matter of weeks! She's barely had any time to work out what is & isn't appropriate behaviour in school.

I remember when my eldest was in reception and we went to parents evening her teacher took great delight in telling us how dd had been defiant and said no to her. She was thrilled that she wasn't the meek little lamb she thought she was! And yes of course she was told off and informed that it wasn't acceptable but both teacher & dd learnt something from it without it becoming a big deal. That's good teaching.

But mathanxiety - some children cry over pretty much anything. You don't know the child. You don't know if she is a child who dissolves into tears at the slightest provocation, or if it takes harsh treatment.

Yes, it is a shame that being corrected upset the child so much - but it is hardly the end of the world that it has happened ONCE. If the teacher regularly reduced children to tears I would agree with you, but again there is no suggestion that that is the case.

And to say that the teacher should never correct a child in case that child turns out to be a sensitive little soul who will cry about it is unrealistic.

I have helped in class a lot over five years. I have seen a child dissolve into tears at being corrected once in that time. The child totally deserved to be told off, and was not told off unduly harshly. They just didn't like being told off at all. It happens sometimes.

My DD does it at home, actually, it is bl**dy annoying sometimes (note - I adore her, but it is not my favourite of her traits), but apparently does not do it at school. If she did, I certainly wouldn't judge the teacher nor want her to get an easier ride as a result.