to think dd's teacher was maybe over-reacting a tad?

[Northernlurker]

Apparently dd has been 'very rude' today as per the message from teacher via after school club. Very rude consists of not listening to story but talking to friends and then saying 'no' when told to stop and 'no' when told to move. Now I agree this is very rude and the teacher obviously dealt with it at length because dd was in floods of tears when collected by after school club. I have spoken to dd and she was talking because the book was one we have at home and she was telling her friends as much. At the end of a hot day, at the end of term her attention is shot to pieces as is that of most of the other kids. AIBU to think that a message home about this infraction was overkill. She didn't get a warning, she didn't get a timeout - and really what am i supposed to do about this? i speak to dd about her day every day. i am clear about what is expected but seeing as she's a stubborn 4 who has been at school less than a term i don't expect miracles. Frankly impressed we've got this far.

Or should I be grovelling tomorrow?

If the teacher had invited the children to share their thoughts then I am 99% confident they would have settled down and been ready to listen.

Really? And how many 4 year olds/Reception storytimes are you basing that on, I wonder? Because you can't go on the facts, since there are none which relate to whether there was a discussion or not. I actually think it's irrelevant anyway to the little girl's behaviour, but you seem determined to heap imaginary slights on this teacher.

And 'orders' in what fashion - 'can you move please?'

math - I think instant obedience should be expected in many instances. In this instance I can see that the teacher has not been as warm or welcoming as she should have been. That may well be the explanation for the girl's defiance here.

But equally, I've seen children who would take the opportunity to talk all the way through school if they could, despite the best teaching I have experienced. Teachers do have to issue orders, just as parents do, at times.

why the formality of a letter about this??

if teacher has issue with child's behaviour, better to talk about it to parents. if it is a one-off the teacher needs to get over it! if its ongoing, then a discussion with parents would be better..

wasn't a letter was it

I agree with you there Jane.

OriginalJamie, There are many ways of dealing with a persistent talker, including getting the parents involved. Sometimes it means getting an attention deficit issue addressed. But the OP hasn't had any indication that persistent talking is an issue, not even from the teacher on the day of the chatting/reprimand/crying incident.

What formal letter? Do you mean the 'message' from after school club? I assume that would be verbal, janelikesjam, it's hard to pass something on if needs be and I often get school messages through my childminder - or have I missed something here?

It wasn't the persistent talking that was the problem, math - it's was the incident where a child had said 'no' twice to the teacher and was upset that she was told off for it. That's what needed reporting.

Gosh -what a lot of assumptions about the teacher from very little information!
It is a mountain out of a molehill. Tell the DC that if she doesn't want to get into trouble she needs to let everyone listen to the story and do as she is told-change the subject and forget about it!

'And 'orders' in what fashion - 'can you move please?'

You are basing your assumption that this is what the teacher said on -- exactly what, Feenie?

You are no more a fly on the wall than I am. My opinions are based on the information given by the OP (the salient fact being that the child committed the crime of telling her neighbour that she had the book at home) coupled with my observations of the work of excellent teachers. Yours are apparently based on the idea that a teacher is always right no matter how wrong or misguided her approach.

Even if the teacher had solicited comments and the child was speaking out of turn, excitement about the book was still a positive thing and the teacher should have hesitated to bat it down the way she did. It was an opportunity for her to suggest having books at home that we read or that other read to us is a good thing and that we can also get books at the library. A teacher who misses that sort of opportunity is not really all that enthusiastic about her job imo.

or is trying to let others benifit from the session.

And then all the well-behaved children get to miss the story because there wasn't enough time to finish it after the chatty one who refused to be quiet had to have a hastily improvised talk about how good it is to have books read to you that you have at home.....

gettinghappy

"Some of the comments I have read by people who are teachers make me cringe and I sincerely hope my son doesn't ever have the misfortune to be taught by you. In fact if I were you, I would hope you don't have to teach my son because with some of the attitudesdisplayed here you would find yourself answering formal complaints."

Please tell me that you are planning to home school.

I am basing it on the fact that most reasonable teachers would ask politely - and expect the request to be heeded.

Are you assuming most teacher aren't polite now? Jeez.

Mine is a reasonable assumption to make - yours is a bit mental, tbh, as are all your other strange extrapolations.

'It wasn't the persistent talking that was the problem, math - it's was the incident where a child had said 'no' twice to the teacher and was upset that she was told off for it. That's what needed reporting.'

It wasn't even persistent talking, Feenie. My reference to persistent talking was in reply to a point of OriginalJamie's.

As far as we are aware, the child talked one time out of turn. In my opinion she should have been given the chance to say her piece beforehand and thus thus the correction and attendant embarrassment and upset would have been avoided. The teacher then probably gave a direct instruction at some point while the child was still upset, thus setting the stage for the 'No'. I think she had more than a 50/50 chance of getting that response to her instruction if that is what she did.

A teacher who expects a four year old child to comply with a direct instruction while upset or embarrassed is expecting too much. If she suspected the child was at risk of flying off the handle she could have given her a quiet task to do like putting together a puzzle at a table in order to give her a chance to calm down and regain mental focus. She should not have ordered the child to the table but should have brought her there and encouraged her (along the lines of 'come with me, I have something I need you to do') to complete the task. This teacher created a crisis through misjudgement and mishandling of the situation when with a bit more patience and effort she could easily have spent a much more productive afternoon. The win-win approach always results in more compliant children and more productive classroom.

In fairness I have sat down to storytimes with children, and discussed with the children what they think the story is about and who has read it before etc, only to have one child insist on piping up on EVERY page telling everyone what was going to happen next. It does ruin it for everyone else.

As I say, Feenie, reasonable and smart teachers would not even ask in that situation.

Boneyback -- you are setting the bar very low for teachers.

except not very productive for everyone else whilst the teacher is pandering to the one who refuses to be quiet and do as she's asked, and has to make up special encouragements and 'things I need you to do'.

Far to much fussing here. She was badly behaved, she was told so, and she said 'no' she wouldn't do as she was asked - not really on, not very good behaviour - end.

You don't know that she wasn't given the opportunity to talk beforehand. You have assumed it. That was my point.

Really, you have no clue at all about being in a classroom. It's kind of annoying me now.

Thing is math - you weren't there. None pof us were. Maybe the teacher did all these things you are suggesting, and still ended up with a child who said no and then cried.

We have no way of knowing - not you, not the Op, no-one. Which makes the rhetoric all fairly pointless...

Oakmaiden . I have also seen that

Math

maybe I am setting the bar to high for some parents.

Mathanxiety, you are truly a fantasist . The only thing that made any sense and that I could possibly agree with in your posts was this: "I can't be sure" ...
Exactly. Try to remember this. You weren't there

All of your weird extrapolations regarding this teacher, mathanxiety:

1. The teacher is far too task-oriented and focused on only one aspect of the reading experience.

2. She is bored and burned out and impatient and not really up to the task of taking care of young children after they have already spent a full day at school.

3. She is places inappropriate demands on children to behave for her own convenience or she doesn't enjoy teaching or she is tired of four year olds all day.

4. She treats a 4 year old as The Enemy.

5. She picks fights with children.

6. Her two days off at the end of term were perhaps for health reasons, but perhaps because term couldn't end fast enough for her.

7. She isn't prepared to make the effort instead of taking the easy and lazy route

8. She favours direct confrontation of four year olds.

9. She is treating the four year old children like army recruits and using fear of punishment or embarrassment in order that the children should learn their place, a goal that is different from that of proper boundary setting. A teacher is not a drill sergeant.

All that from one incident that you didn't see, all from inside your head. Mathanxiety, you have never met this woman, and the OP didn't say any of these things. It's scary how much vitriol you are prepared to direct towards a person you have never met based on assumptions.

Oakmaiden, why not ask the children who have read it before to make sure they can keep the secret, and make it some sort of game?

Would you not see if there was an alternative to having those who knew the ending spoiling it for everyone else? Would you think it might be worth your while to give out a small bribe prize to the children who can resist the temptation? Having them sit together as a team and hold hands as a reminder not to speak during the story? Or maybe consider confining the reading to books no-one has heard before (harder to do).

Just genuinely curious about the strategies you have in place for this sort of fairly predictable incident, given that children are inclined to relate things they encounter to themselves and their lives, and that they like to 'share with the class'?

I don't think asking for comments beforehand is going to affect the likelihood of them chiming in with comments during the story.

and math

I don't like to annoyed because I generally agree with your posts.