to wonder why you'd have a child and then leave it for 5 days a week

[incredulousonlooker]

and I don't mean leave it in a nursery while you're at work type thing.
I mean actually LEAVE it on a Sunday night and come back on Friday.

She's only 4 months old ffs. It seems very wrong to me.

Would anyone else seriously consider doing this, especially if their partner refused to look after the baby?
Anyone? Only on MN could anyone argue it's ok to leave a baby all day and night EVERY WEEK with grandparents.

so the subject of OP's judgey rant is in the Forces? ah OP will ye ever go way and do something constructive with your time will ye! perhaps give your front room window a wash from all the nose pressing!

aliceinboots i couldnt do it! but i will not judge someone I dont know nor their circumstances!!

I agree Scaryteacher.
We are talking about a particular job which means mother has to work away from where she has support.
Husband is an arse.
Grandparents are doing what many grandparents in the world do. Of course it is not an ideal situation, especially if the grandparents are not 45.

As I said before, it is not easy to change jobs at the moment.

Aliceinboots, I would.

Without knowing all the details/circumstances no one can really answer your question OP.
The most important thing is that the child, wherever it stays, is getting love and attention.
Some Mothers leave their child because it is in the child's best interest.

Well Alice, the child is here. Mother needs to work, that is her job. She made the difficult decision to have a child, even in a not so ideal situation.

And yes, grandparents raising children is a reality in many, many countries. Not ideal maybe, but not even outrageous

So you think it's better for the mum to put the child in childcare, than with it's maternal GP's? I don't.
If the GP's have a problem with that arrangement then it's their problem to sort out.

Unless you really think the child is not being cared for properly by the GP's then I don't see what your issue is.

Grahamtribe - you only have to look at some of the threads on here, and talk to some of the Forces wives to know that MQs aren't the wonderful cheap homes people imagine them to be.

Having been on a couple of bases I'm not surprised, Scaryteacher, which is what made me question the OP's "solution" to the "problem".

I get that this lady maybe on the mature side so may not have long left in the forces which is why she may be holding on for pension rights and lump sum(for her childs future). The gp may have even offered. Some people in the forces can be away for 9 months at a time. There are so many ifs and butts.

OP - You said that the mother would ben 'entitled' to a cheap quarter and childcare. The forces do not provide childcare, so I dont know where you get that particular piece of nonsense.

Yes quarter prices are generally cheap - but not as cheap as single accn. If mother and father are paying a mortgage on their own home, the cheapest option is likely to be the best.

Depending on where mother is working, what rank she is, what trade she is etc she could well be out of her 'bed' from 0600 to 2000. She may also have to do 24 hr duties where she could be called out in the middle of the night (so childcare??). She may be at a unit where she would get a week long duty (even more childcare??). She could be at a unit where she has to go on Exercise a lot - for weeks at a time (even more childcare??).

As she is in the Forces, every year she has served she has been working towards a regular pension and lump-sum gratuity that will make hers and her childs lives much easier once the military contract is fulfilled. It offers stability in an ever unstable world. The mother is earning a very good, very secure wage, which again in these times is a godsend. I mean, for example if mother was a soldier with 18 years under her belt she could either work for another 4 years (even if that means working 'away') and gets a lump sum (which could be as much as £50K) plus an immediate pension (of maybe £1K a month - that increases at age 55) or she leaves now and gets a lump sum of £8.5K and no pension until age 65, and then only at a reduced rate.

Which would you choose?

Oh and unless the grandparents actually told the OP that they didn't want to do the childcare, then how do we know that they didn't jump at the chance and relish the opportunity?

So.

I don't think the mother is being unreasonable. I think she is probably making the best of a bad lot and working hard to secure a future for her family.

I think I dont know enough about the father to have an opinion (did he tell the OP he 'couldn't be bothered to look after his kid' or did the OP make that up / assume that?). On the face of it he's a tosser, but who knows?

I think the OP is being VERY unreasonable to judge the mother so harshly just because she has made choices that the OP wouldn't have. Especially without the full facts.

That's a good point Squidworth.

But surely the issue is having a baby with a father that won't look after his own child? If I honestly thought my DP would be like this I wouldn't have a baby or if I found this out afterwards, I wouldn't stay with my DP as this is outargeous behaviour for him.

Whoever said that HM Forces don't subsidise CC are wrong! My two lovely nieces are in an ace subsidised nursery as my sis is in the Army. She gets two f/t places for £22 per day! She lol's out loud at how much I paid when mine were younger! Sis and bil also get to choose holidays and don't have to pay for days they don't use! There are some really difficult jobs in the Forces, which no end of subsidised CC will ever be enough for, but there are certainly subsidised placements available in some parts

Once again this stems from criticism of members of the Armed Forces who in most cases get very little choice about where they work regardless of whether it is the mother or father who is serving.

Some realitites of service life for you that may shed some light on why this mother has made this decision at this point in her life.

1. Yes you are entitled to service housing , if it is available. In some areas it is so short you end up being placed in a private rental miles from work.Even if they did take this housing then the Father would probably have to give up work or find a new job - if they move every 2 years then he will hav eto do this every 2 years just as service wives do. Not everyone can afford to live on 1 income. Even if the family did all move together, if both parents are working the child will be in full time childcare anyway but at a nursery or childminder. I would rather my child was with family if it were at all possible. Unfortunately in our case that is not possible.
2. The quality of this "cheap" accommodation in some cases leaves a lot to be desired, if this couple are lucky enough to own their own home in an area where they have family support then they are very lucky to be on the property ladder - many of us spend years being sent somewhere different every 2 years with our families traipsing round behind us. Yes it is a lifestyle choice but for many of us we have been in the service from a young age and by the time you are ready to settle down and have a family it has become a way of life and you are often not in a position to leave without severely penalising yourself through loss of income, pension entitlement etc. At least we are working and paying our taxes to help support the economy.
3. Some families decide for one parent to stay at home and raise the children, again not all feel this is the right choice for them just like non service families. Yet you don't criticise non military families for having 2 parents that work and put their children in childcare. For the parent that gives up work to follow their spouse around, they have great difficulty in finding jobs that will happily take them knowing they are moving again in 2 years, oh and it makes your CV look really good changin jobs so often.
4. Sometimes our jobs mean we have to travel, most of us accept that this is part of the job but believe me I know very few people who enjoy this or don't feel guilty about it but what other choice may there be? It may be this mother is due to leave the service in 2 years and this is her last job - do you know that? have you actually spoken to them about this? I had been in my career 14 years before we had children - would you ask anyone else to give that up and the pension benefits I would have lost - for me staying in for the extra 8 years I will have done by the time I leave makes a significant difference to my pension entitlement.
5. Leaving your child in this situation is extremely hard - believe me I know having had to do something similar before where I didn't have the option of the family coming with me. Again if one parent can't stay at home to act as a lone parent effectively then the support from family is essential unless you plan to use full time childcare.
6. All of us in this country are aware of how difficult the job market is at present, anyone who willingly gives up a secure job in today's climate without having a guaranteed job elsewhere would be mad.
7. As a working mother I hope my children learn a good work ethic from me, and when the time is right their Father when he goes back to work after raising our children.
8. At least she knows it is not a permanent arrangement, it is for 2 years then her job will change again. Having 2 children I know that I would rather leave them when they are young and realistically have little understanding of this than when they are older and clearly understand not only that you are away but also where you might be and the risks that may entail.

Personally I find the assumption that this working Mother is doing something "unreasonable" as fairly offensive. I have been away from here for 3 weeks whilst I deserted both my children to go away to work with little contact with them. Clearly that makes me a bad parent, perhaps I should just give up work and claim benefits and live off the taxes I have paid for the past 20 plus years of my life.

Apologies to those of you who know me as normally fairly mild mannered but this has wound me up - and yes I know it is AIBU!

Wow. All I can say is mind your own bloody business OP. (And if anyone should be criticised, it's Dad, not Mum, who is clearly trying her very best in very difficult circumstances.)

But virtually no-one has said that it is the mother being away that is unreasonable. The baby has 2 parents. And the issue is that the baby is bein brought up by neither of them. And IMO this is not okay.

MissKeith - I'd love to know where that is - I've served for 22 Years and never been at a place with subsidised childcare I have used childcare vouchers through Sodexho, but then most people can do that with a salary sacrifice.

lesley the mother is in the forces and the father sounds like a useless one, so which one of them are supposed to look after the baby?

The father - could use childcare, GP's or a mothers help as back up. And if you can't leave your child with its own father, should you really be in a relationship with that man?

I know a couple who had their DD very young. The dd lived with her paternal gps for the best part of 3 years while her parents were at uni. Overall this worked out really well as they then went on to have great careers and give their dd a fab life.

I do have the full facts thanks.

MQs are no worse than what many many people on civvy street live in. Certainly plenty of forces people think they're good enough places to bring up children in!

If she took baby back to garrison with her then she'd be in no different a position than many single mothers who work AND put their children in childcare WHICH ISNT RIGHT OUTSIDE THEIR WORKPLACE and they all seem to cope!

Not everyone in the forces gets deployed to Afghanistan ffs

But regardless I don't understand why you'd have a child if you can ( and by that i mean "intend to") only care for it 2 days a week. If GPs turn round and say we aren't doing it any more what would happen? One of the parents would have to step up right? Well shouldn't they be doing that NOW for their OWN child that they CHOSE to have?

I would be concerned about the baby. The baby will form strong attachments with its grandparents (and not with its parents), and this could be problematic later on.

If we were to imagine that the baby was in care, it would be unusual for an arrangement such as this to be sanctioned, as it is arguably not in the best interests of the child. I could only imagine it being sanctioned if the long term care plan was for the baby to return to its parents. OP, do you know if this situation is temporary?

In fact, in terms of the baby's best interests given the situation, it may be more beneficial if s/he stays at the grandparents' at the weekend too, and has contact with her parents there.

Quarters are sometimes worse, sometimes better. That wasn't the issue. The block / the mess is cheaper.

Many single mothers dont work 16 hour days. Many single mothers dont do 24 hour duties. Many single mothers dont go on Exercise. Many single mothers dont deploy on Operations (it's not just Afghanistan).

Unless downgraded EVERYONE in the Forces could be deployed on Operations. Not everyone is, but there is always the chance. Every trade in the Forces is needed on Ops somewhere in the world.

Her posting may only be for 2 years. In 2 years time she could be sent somewhere closer to home.

IF is a big word. IF may never happen.

One of her parents has stepped up - she's working to provide a better life for her child whilst her child is too young to care.