AIBU to stop buyng The Independant because of this ad?

[NowThenWreck]

The one from Fathers4Justice, where they accuse MN of:

"carrying abusive and distressing anti-male content which promotes gender hatred against men and boys"
and, apparently, labels "men and boys as rapist, peados and wife beaters."

The ad has a lovely picture of a sad little boy with words like "rioter" and "homeless" and "sperm bank" written on his skin.

I am confused, as I have never come across a thread on here where people routinely call men paedophiles and rapists. In fact, usually, if someone implies that a man being left alone with a child is dodgy, posters will pile in and say "God, don't you know not all men are paedos.?"

As I understand it, this is a forum for discussion, not a political movement with a manifesto. There are many and varied opinions on MN, and the minute one opinion is aired, another will be along to refute it.

Or should I just laugh at F4J? The ad is quite gruesomely funny.

I think you're making a pretty warped argument there I'm afraid, especially in view of the things nyac was posting. I think you're in denial about these things, and so accuse nyac of posting 'statistics and personal conjecture'.

When in fact, the stats used by governments/ WHO etc are pretty much as near to the truth as you will get, and are hugely more accurate than anecdote or personal experience.

Yes, it was the longest flounce in history I remember it well.

Oh, and I have studied statistics at A level and degree level btw - I know the ways they can be misused - but I also know the ways they are enormously helpful.

nyac wasn't posting anything statistically misleading.

Running - I am not in denial about anything, I really don't understand how you would come to that conclusion. I've already stated why I said what I said.

Can you give me evidence of the veracity of statistics? Statistics are a guage.

'and are hugely more accurate than anecdote or personal experience.'

Statistics are based on personal experience, in that a survey is taken, and people answer with their personal experiences.

Look, I'm not saying statistics don't have their place, just that people should see them for what they are, a guage.

Sigmund, don't try to muddy the facts - you accused nyac of 'all you ever do is type statistics and personal conjecture' and 'statistics are not the truth.'

Stats are purely an analysis of a large collation of data, and so more vauable than one person's anecdotes/experience.

Could you point me to the statistics that you though nyac posted that were misleading, perhaps? Then we can discuss it from there.

Here's a statistic.

The number of missing females due to them being aborted or killed as infants, is so high now that it actually affects world population figures.

Females used to represent 51% of the population. Now it is 50% due to the gendercide mentioned by Nyac upthread.

That is just an astounding, horrible statistic beach.

And yet, F4J want the FWR section in MN closed down. They demanded it on their FB page. Because we're all equal now innit?

Yes it is.

I don't live in the UK but if I did I would definitely be popping into M&S tomorrow to buy nice food.

' you accused nyac of 'all you ever do is type statistics and personal conjecture' and 'statistics are not the truth.''

I didn't accuse her, I stated it. TBH, I'm not quite sure why you're speaking on behalf on Nyac, she's quite capable of speaking for herself.

'Stats are purely an analysis of a large collation of data, and so more vauable than one person's anecdotes/experience.'

Ok. If I like rich tea biscuits, and my sister's like digestive, then I am quite within my remit to state that 2 in 3 women like digestives. That is a statistic, no?

Stats are a collection of data, but they are not the truth.

'Could you point me to the statistics that you though nyac posted that were misleading, perhaps?'

I never specified any particular statistics, I stated that statistics were not the truth. And that the rest was conjecture, personal opinion. Which was true.

Thought so. You don't have any reliable statistical information to counter her very reliable statistics, so you just rubbish statistics full stop. Glad we've clarified that then.

Oh, and this forum is all about personal opinion, you can't criticise her on that!

I haven't looked running. You are misinterpreting what I'm saying. I am and was saying that statistics aren't the truth. Do you believe that statistics are the truth?

I wasn't criticising her for having personal opinion. I said that that was what her post was based on (along with conjecture and statistics).

I don't like the word 'truth' but I would say that statistics, used correctly, show the biggest, most accurate picture. You can lie with statistics, you can misuse and mislead with them but they are a tool for getting at the truth.

HOwever, I don't think this is what nyac did, and I think if nyac posted that 'the sky is often blue', you would answer, 'How can you say that! I've most often seen the sky white, or grey or black!!' You just want to disagree because she's a feminist.

According to the F4J facebook page, O'Conner has been arrested for stripping naked outside M&S.

Apparently he was 'exposing the the truth about M&S sponsoring gender hatred'.

Anyway, on a lighter note, Matt O'Connor was arrested, seemingly while naked today.

Cross post beach

And he says F4J have finished with the headline grabbing publicity stunts now? Honestly!

If you like rich tea biscuits, and your sisters like digestives, then you are quite entitled to state that based on a sample size of three , 2 in 3 women like digestives. Or you are quite entitled to state (unqualified) that 2 in 3 women like digestives, and other posters are entitled to ask for details of the sample size and methodology and a link to where the original study was published. The answers to those questions help to determine how useful/reliable the statistics are.

This is commonly known as 'willy waving' in feminist circles. Except usually men don't actually wave their willies and think that anybody is interested in them.

AyeRobot posted this excellent comment on another thread. I hope she doesn't mind me quoting her here. PMSL.

"My, what a cock!

Is what people who saw the unveiling were saying..."

'I don't like the word 'truth' but I would say that statistics, used correctly, show the biggest, most accurate picture. You can lie with statistics, you can misuse and mislead with them but they are a tool for getting at the truth.'

Then we are pretty much I agreement.

'HOwever, I don't think this is what nyac did, and I think if nyac posted that 'the sky is often blue', you would answer, 'How can you say that! I've most often seen the sky white, or grey or black!!' You just want to disagree because she's a feminist.'

I probably would answer that because the sky is often white or grey. Black not so much. Feminists will often say that the sky is always blue.

I don't just disagree with feminists, I disagree with non-feminists too. In fact, I disagree with anyone who I don't agree with.

Matt O' Connor disrobing was unwise. He could have hit the gym first.

Elephants..Yes, true.

Just wanting to correct something about the CAB.

A particular office cannot work for the same people who are in a dispute about something, whether it is child contact or an argument between flatmates re bills. This is because there would be a conflict of interest.

However this only means the office NOT the whole of the CAB. It just means if in a divorce situation, the wife is getting advice from your local office, the husband just needs to go to another CAB in the next town/area.

The CAB is open to EVERYONE and is free.

That's all right then Sigmund, if you say so.