AIBU to stop buyng The Independant because of this ad?

[NowThenWreck]

The one from Fathers4Justice, where they accuse MN of:

"carrying abusive and distressing anti-male content which promotes gender hatred against men and boys"
and, apparently, labels "men and boys as rapist, peados and wife beaters."

The ad has a lovely picture of a sad little boy with words like "rioter" and "homeless" and "sperm bank" written on his skin.

I am confused, as I have never come across a thread on here where people routinely call men paedophiles and rapists. In fact, usually, if someone implies that a man being left alone with a child is dodgy, posters will pile in and say "God, don't you know not all men are paedos.?"

As I understand it, this is a forum for discussion, not a political movement with a manifesto. There are many and varied opinions on MN, and the minute one opinion is aired, another will be along to refute it.

Or should I just laugh at F4J? The ad is quite gruesomely funny.

There are some.

There are also some dads who aren't interested in seeing their children. Dads who turn up when they feel like it and leave their children sitting on the stairs with a bag and their coat on, waiting.There are dads who refuse to contribute financially and tell their ex partners that if they go to the CSA they'll stop turning up to visit their children.

Not all dads are like that though. Those ^ men are no more representative of fathers as a whole than those women who interfere with contact (for no legitimate reason) are of mothers as a whole.

'Picking and choosing what you believe kind of makes a mockery of the words "We believe you".'

No it doesn't. Sensible people think hard about what they believe.
Running a 'we believe you' campaign to support rape victims doesn't mean you suddenly have to believe everything everyone says. If it did we'd all have to start believing in lots of different gods and believing our toddlers when they tell us they are animals.

"Picking and choosing what you believe kind of makes a mockery of the words "We believe you"."

Only if you can't understand the campaign.

Women who have been sexually assaulted or raped are routinely disbelieved and called liars. This campaign is a challenge to that.

If you can point out where men are routinely disbelieved when they claim to be innocent of sexual assault or rape (6% conviction rate says otherwise) you might be correct.

droves - My ex doesn't work, the £1300 is a mixture of child maintenance and welfare, but all completely tax free. The thing is, it is more than what most people get in their pay packet, but it is just an avenue in which she is using now, to hurt me as much as possible.

She wants over £500 a month to rent somewhere... on top of everything else, and that is just to cause me as much financial pain as possible.

I think I need to write out what the expenses are that I pay for on behalf of the ex, in addition to the child maintenance.

£400 a month for her property
£100 a month for the council tax for her property
£400+ a month in fuel
Approx £100 a month for insurance and mainteance on the vehicle which I provide.

So pretty much left with nothing, and in debt up to my eyeballs.. and on top of that also having to pay solicitor bills which just keep coming in and coming in, and they won't continue to support you if you don't pay the bill.

Worra, how could 'We believe you' work if it's also applied to the people who are being named as abusers by those speaking out!

Nyac, you are singularly obtuse. Are we playing Top Trumps here? Of course I know that appalling things happen to women. Where did I say they didn't? But to hurl statistics at me as a way to silence me isn't going to work (statistics are not a statement of fact).

Appalling things happen to men too. It is right to be concerned for both. It is discrimination to only be concerned for one.

IME (and I've been a 'School Mum' for 17yrs) one of the most common reasons for women stopping contact/putting obstacles in the way/poisoning kids minds...is because they've finished with the ex and want to move on.

Often they want to start a life and a new family with someone else and the ex is a constant reminder of the past. A lot of the time, they resent the kids talking about their ex...especially in front of their new partner and would rather forget them altogether.

Or they're fine about contact until their ex meets someone else and they become jealous of the kid's relationship with her.

It's by no means the only reason but it's far too bloody common imo.

I did Infact take my exh to court to force him to visit our children.

He stated in the initial divorce paperwork that he did not want access to The children.

I did not ask for any money from him as divorce settlement . Just that he helped with The kids.

Judge ruled in my favor and awarded him 4 overnight stays a fortnight , one week at Xmas , one week at Easter and two weeks in summer holidays .

He currently sees children , 4 or 5 days in October , and week in summer ...sometime comes to take them out if it's their birthday . But tells everyone I stole his kids from him .

Oh and he used to chuck jobs when CSa caught up with him to avoid paying maintence. Doesn't do it know since they threatend him with prison , and went for arrestment of earnings order.

What would F4j say about him ? I'd like to think they'd slate him for not taking the time he legally has right to ...( he knows he could see them any times he likes over and above court appointed access , but chooses not too) .
But I don't think thats the issue with them , is it ?

Abusers lie about abuse in general. Victims don't.

I favour gender neutral assumptions about that though. To suggest that women are not abusers and it is always men is the problem here. Especially when it comes to emotional abuse.

And thats precisely what you've just done.

As for the word misandry... well by feminisms its very nature, women are now in a position where they are able to vocalise hatred and express opinions that 40 or 50 years ago that they were not able to. I think perhaps considering the chicken and the egg is appropriate. It is acceptable to hate men in some circles. Admitting it exists, rather shatters the world of a few feminists and it shows them up to be hypocrites, so they are never going to admit it.

type "porn" into google and there's a small chance you might come across:

"abusive and distressing anti-female content which promotes gender hatred against women and girls"
and, apparently, labels "women and girls as bitches, sluts and toilets."

Except porn is actually hurting women and girls. IN real life...

Whereas complaining about actual women getting actually hurt on a thread on mumsnt, is not quite the same thing....

these people are seriously disturbed and out of touch with reality. They think typing words of complaint is the SAME as BEING hurt like women are in porn.

Auschopper ....you should not be paying her council tax bill ! . Fair enough paying for the house your child lives in, but not a car and insuring it.

Just don't pay that . Pay the maintence . Even pay a little more maintence , but not a fecking car !!!!!

If there are appalling things done to men by "misandrists" SigmundFraude then list them. I use facts to back up my arguments, why don't you.

"£400 a month for her property
£100 a month for the council tax for her property
£400+ a month in fuel
Approx £100 a month for insurance and mainteance on the vehicle which I provide. "

You said she lived with her parents auschopper. Are you now saying she doesn't?

Anyway auschopper I wish you and your little boy all the luck in the world and hope you can get this sorted out.

Please do save this thread for him for the future and any letters/cards/emails etc to show him he was never off your mind.

FWIW, I think you've been treated disgracefully by a minority of people on this thread and sadly, I really don't think you would have got such a rough ride if you were a Mother in this situation.

Good luck

Often they want to start a life and a new family with someone else and the ex is a constant reminder of the past. A lot of the time, they resent the kids talking about their ex...especially in front of their new partner and would rather forget them altogether."

Actually Worraliberty I can verify this, from personal experience

My ex tried to do exactly this to me after he met his new wife.

I don't therefore extrapolate from this horrible experience that there are loads of men trying to write their ex partners out of their lives through spite, as such an assertion has no basis in fact and would be nothing more than speculation.

There are a whole lot of questions that you haven't answered auschopper.

I could write a novel...

People keep asking you where your wife lives and also whether it was you who stopped the contact in the end or your wife.

I think I have answered all of those questions.... she lives with her parents, and even though it was court ordered contact, it was stopped by her, and was sporadic, and every time I had to go back to court and the courts just glossed over it, so it was allowed to continue. I went back to court, after 2 months, and got an extension of 15 minutes! What really hurt me was that her parents were looking after him, while she went out with friends, when I could have looked after him for a bit longer.

aus. Very strange what has happened to you. You must be dreadful with money and earn a lot. There's no way that any court would leave you with less than half your income, rightly or wrongly. Men I know only have to apy 25% of their wages for all of their children.

Hes said she effectively lives with her parents for support, but also has a home which he pays for.

So why are you paying for her property if she lives with her parents.

What is the "marital home" and who is living in that?

Flippinada there have been lots of women I've known over the years, openly doing this.

The experience was my own.

Anyway, I've got to leave this thread cos it's being taken over by some of the usual thumb screw twisters and I feel auschopper will probably feel all the worse for trying to constantly defend himself on it.

NYac . She lives with her parents , but has a house of her own too.

Come to think of it , i think auschopper should stop paying everything but the maintenece for his son.

That way he'd be able to afford to pay the lawyers to get him better access ...but I will need to be a good one because he's dropped his visits of his own volition.

It's a bit weird isn't it that he's paying out so much. Is it court-ordered.

NYAC : You said she lived with her parents auschopper. Are you now saying she doesn't?

She has a house, that is empty... but unfortunately strangely the mortgage company still want their money, and the council also want theirs. Hope this makes sense...

Really Worraliberty - you know loads of women who have denied access to their exes out of spite. Is that your impression/opinion or have they actually told you that?

And you say it's your experience. Do you mean that you have personally experienced someone trying to write you out of your child's life?

So why are you paying for her property if she lives with her parents.

Because I don't want to be a prick...

Auschopper ....paying for that and not seeing your boy ...and you don't want to be a prick ...

I don't know what to say ....interesting choice of word ...perhaps gullible would be better , or unfocused on what's important.