AIBU to stop buyng The Independant because of this ad?

[NowThenWreck]

The one from Fathers4Justice, where they accuse MN of:

"carrying abusive and distressing anti-male content which promotes gender hatred against men and boys"
and, apparently, labels "men and boys as rapist, peados and wife beaters."

The ad has a lovely picture of a sad little boy with words like "rioter" and "homeless" and "sperm bank" written on his skin.

I am confused, as I have never come across a thread on here where people routinely call men paedophiles and rapists. In fact, usually, if someone implies that a man being left alone with a child is dodgy, posters will pile in and say "God, don't you know not all men are paedos.?"

As I understand it, this is a forum for discussion, not a political movement with a manifesto. There are many and varied opinions on MN, and the minute one opinion is aired, another will be along to refute it.

Or should I just laugh at F4J? The ad is quite gruesomely funny.

I did see it Stewie. He's still denying he did anything though isn't he.

The point is, I think, that access/ custody cases after splits can be a mess of recrimination and anger on both sides, and are never going to be easy.

Auschops mentions "The thing is though, how many women have had to fight to take the father to court in order to see the children... not very many I suspect..."

I think this is not a reflection of the pro-mothers stance of the courts, rather that women tend to be the resident parent.
Far, far, more fathers abandon their kids than mothers, and more again leave and have limited contact through their own choice, either because they are in a new relationship and have "new" kids, or because they don't want to be bothered with it all.

Some men, like Auschops, genuinely want to be with their children, and if it is true that his Ex is "borderline personality" and obstructive, then this is a terrible situation.

But I don't think is is very common. I seriously do not think there is some kind of epidemic of bitter and twisted harridans stopping their exes seeing their kids just for kicks.
As I said, I sometimes go on the Lone Parent boards, and mainly read posts by women who are struggling to get their Ex to maintain any kind of relationship with their kids.(And not always women-but almost always)

If occasionally the courts get it wrong by "ignoring the evidence" (whatever this means) and the resident parent makes contact hard then that is obviously a Bad Thing.
But it has nothing to do with a website which often provides a voice, and support, to women going through bad relationship problems.
The fact that women come on here to vent, and are sometimes on their last nerve will mean that yes, their controlling husbands, or maintenance avoiding Ex's will get trashed on the boards, and for damn good reasons.

'The only people who use it are those who want to ignore real-life woman hatred which takes the form of rape, domestic violence, stalking, child abuse, pornography, prostitution, genocide of girls in India and China, in favour of a fantasy that there must be women out there who hate men, basically because they were critical of a few of them'

Thats your interpretation of the people who use it. For the wider population misandry is simply a word. If I take the word misogyny and say that the only people who use it are those who want to igonore real-life man hatred etc...would I be right?

I probably would be right actually. Which is why I stick to the actual meaning, rather than my interpretation of it.

I've just had a quick nose around the Separated Dads website btw, it looks like a fantastic organisation.

Yeah, the facebook page is awesome, and worth looking at...

Auschopper ...in earlier post you said your ex lives with her parents .

In another post you said you pay the mortgage on the marital home.

Which is it ? I think your exagerating to gain sympathy.

Nope, it's not simply a word. It's a political word with a history. Once again it was only brought into popular usage because of MRAs with an extreme anti-feminist agenda. By using that word people are helping to promote that agenda, they are also willing to show that they are interested in condemning and slandering women, whilst ignoring the reality of misogyny and the harms misogynists inflict on to women.

I can back up the usage of misogyny a) with the fact it has been around for centuries and was clearly recognised long before any political implication was recognised.and b) with a concrete reality of what is done to women and girls in the name of misogyny. You can't do that with misandry.

Do you really think that misandry existed and people just forgot to notice it until about 20 years ago? In our male-supremacist society? Or the more accurate explanation which is that it is a word used to promote the propaganda of men's rights activists and their backlash against the feminist movement.

'a thread about how men need 'a kick up the arse'.

ShellyBoobs, why not read the thread you mentioned instead of quoting part of the title.

Blimey Nyac talk about over reacting to a word.

Misandry is a word and if people see fit to use it, it's because they feel their's reason to.

Not everyone has an 'agenda' you know...not everyone using it is promoting any kind of propoganda

NAYC : As far as the courts are concerned it is still the marital home... as it was where we lived when we were married. I can home one day from work early to find the house completely empty of her and my son's stuff... it was a day that I was completely gutted.. I am living in the marital home... as I have no where else to go.. There is a lot more to this story, but don't want to go into it.

The exDW has a property not far from here, but is unable to bring up our son without the constant help of her parents. They were always here when I was at work, even though, exDW claimed that she was a 1950's housewife, which was very much far from the truth. So basically she has a house, doesn't want to live in it, and I am stuck paying for all the bills.

Women don't generally receive alimony these days.

Umm, yes they do... and they tried that as well, and instead of being thrown out of court, it has been adjourned. Especially when exDW is getting tax free £1300 a month, and no out goings, she wants more and more, but that is a way to punish me as ever other avenue has run out. She was wanting another £500 a month.

where there is no violence/abuse involved, It's probably important to note that we dont' know that.

True, but in this case and many other cases there isn't any of this. I strongly believer that you should never hit a partner, and well, have been in those type of relationships before where it is the other way around. And that is a very big assumption as well, that automatically, because you are the bloke, the marriage failure is because of you, and it was because you were violent or abusive. But in the courts you are treated as if you were... which is extremely unfair.

where there is no violence/abuse involved, It's probably important to note that we dont' know that

I hope people don't drive that point home on the relationship boards when someone posts to say they've been assaulted by their DH/DP.

Whatever happened to giving the benefit of doubt to posters?

You know full well that the word misandry has far earlier usage than you are making out. You know full well that male-hatred exists. You know it. There is a thread in the FWR, in which a poster denounces all men. You know there is. You simply choose not to see it.

Seriously though, it's Mother's Day, and my DH and boys are taking me out for lunch. I really can't be bothered with 'all women are weak oppressed victims' diatribes today, so I'll bid you adieu.

Exactly Worra. And surely the "we believe you" campaign for women who've experienced violence ad sexual assault can extend to this male poster who says he hasn't abused his wife.

You know full well that male-hatred exists

According to a certain group it exists on here. Apparently it's all over MN. All these posters - who have fathers, brothers, sons, husbands, partners and male friends - are haters. So forgive me for being sceptical.

Male hatred does not exist.

Where are the mass rapes of men by women such as the ones are going on in the Congo and Darfur at the moment?

Where are the one in seven men in Niger who will die in childbirth because their wives won't stop fucking them?

Where are the young boys whose bodies are destroyed by childbirth because they gave birth to early because women just couldn't stop themselves from penetrating them?

Where are the women marrying 10 year old Afghan boys because they claim that god gives them the right.

Where are the 100 million missing boys and men in India and China, aborted, neglected or even murdered in infancy because they are the unwanted degraded sex?

Where is the female supremacist culture where women hold almost all the political, social and economic power and systematically exclude men from it.

Where are the one in three men who are beaten by women in relationships or the one in four men who will be sexually assaulted by men.

Do you need a longer list?

Misandry as a term is useful for Scrabble. That's it.

The only people that I have ever seen to use the word misandry was a website devoted to false rape where they discussed that most women lie about rape.

"surely the "we believe you" campaign for women who've experienced violence ad sexual assault can extend to this male poster who says he hasn't abused his wife"

I was wondering when that would come up.

The corollary of the "we believe you" campaign where women who report harm done to them is that we stop believing men who say "Who me? I never did anything" because they are more than likely to be lying.

Abusers lie about abuse in general. Victims don't.

Auschopper ....so you have a house , your ex has a house ,and she and your son live with her parents ? Thank you for clarifying that for me.

I appologise for thinking you were exagerating.

Is the £1300 a month your ex is getting maintenance your paying for your son ? Or is it money she's earning ?

Why is she wanting £ 500 rise ? Is it in maintence ?
If your wages are the same then she won't get it .

You should be paying 15 % for your son , if you have no other children.

You being stuck paying all these bills , what bills ? Fair enough grumbling about bills , we all have them , and none of us like paying them , but to blame your ex for bills is a bit wingy.

Which is it ? I think your exagerating to gain sympathy.

Certainly not exagerating... I am not worried about what people think, so not after any sympathy, as it is a position I can't do anything about. It was more to highlight the fact that there are a lot of dads who want to spend fair and reasonable time with their children, but are constantly stopped by the vindictive and spiteful nature of their exDW.

There was a guy on here a while back who came on to ask for advice on how to track down his wife who had fled from him to a refuge taking their children.

There were a whole lot of posters who lined up to offer him help and believed him automatically when he said he'd never done nothing and it was all a big mistake and he loved his wife and just wanted to see his children. Those of us who pointed out that women don't normally run to a refuge with a police escort when men are safe to be around got called man-haters (cos man-hating is real innit?)

Anyhow it turned out that his wife was a Mumsnetter and what she reported was a very different story. He'd bought a gun and was making veiled threats to kill her so she'd had to get the hell out. He'd gone on to Mumsent to continue his stalking of her now he didn't know where she was.

So scepticism towards these men when they are laying it on for the sympathy vote (particularly when you see cloying sentimentality) is a reasonable response.

Nyac we don't need a history lesson to see that some people most certainly do hate males.

Regardless of what's happened in the past, some people hate them right now and continue to do so.

Telling someone 'It's important to remember we don't know that' when it comes to claims of violence, does very much put the campaign in jeopardy imo.

Picking and choosing what you believe kind of makes a mockery of the words "We believe you".

Yes, Nyac. I agree but not all men abuse women. I have never been abused by a man. I have wonderful kind intelligent and supportive men in my life, father, brothers friends and sons. This man says he hasn't abused his wife. Why should we assume he is lying?

Lots of women are abused by some men. I believe them. But not all men are abusers.

There are a whole lot of questions that you haven't answered auschopper.

People keep asking you where your wife lives and also whether it was you who stopped the contact in the end or your wife.

I never said that all men abuse women.

You appear to be implying that I did. Why would you do that fat?