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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to stop buyng The Independant because of this ad?

821 replies

NowThenWreck · 16/03/2012 12:00

The one from Fathers4Justice, where they accuse MN of:

"carrying abusive and distressing anti-male content which promotes gender hatred against men and boys"
and, apparently, labels "men and boys as rapist, peados and wife beaters."

The ad has a lovely picture of a sad little boy with words like "rioter" and "homeless" and "sperm bank" written on his skin.

I am confused, as I have never come across a thread on here where people routinely call men paedophiles and rapists. In fact, usually, if someone implies that a man being left alone with a child is dodgy, posters will pile in and say "God, don't you know not all men are paedos.?"

As I understand it, this is a forum for discussion, not a political movement with a manifesto. There are many and varied opinions on MN, and the minute one opinion is aired, another will be along to refute it.

Or should I just laugh at F4J? The ad is quite gruesomely funny.

OP posts:
Original poster
NowThenWreck · 16/03/2012 23:48

And I have to agree with bogeyface, in that, there would be nothing on earth that would make me " walk away" from my son.

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 16/03/2012 23:51

A genuine question because I really don't know about legal aid and the like

But what if you can't afford to keep fighting through courts to see your children?

Do people get help with finance if they're not on benefits?

SweetLilyTea · 16/03/2012 23:51

Auschopper, 2 things,

  1. Please please reconsider your decision to see your son, even of it's only 15mins a day.
  1. Why is any of that the fault or responsibility of MN or M&S??
NarkedPuffin · 16/03/2012 23:52

As you know Nyac, the courts do grant fathers who have been convicted of domestic violence access to their children. I think a lot of the cases they are raising aren't about flat out refusal of access, rather having to repeatedly go to court to try to get ex partners to comply with contact agreements that the courts have presviously set out.

The vast majority of contact between non-resident parents and their children is sorted out without the parties ever setting foot in court. The cases that reach court are, by definition, those that are very contentious.

SweetLilyTea · 16/03/2012 23:55

No, I have to agree. Nothing an ex or a court had to say would make me walk away from my children.

DioneTheDiabolist · 16/03/2012 23:57

Auschopper, you do not see your son because you chose to not see him. Sad for your son because if what you are saying about his mother is true, he really needs you and you have bailed on him.

You fought your Ex for access, you got it and then you stopped contact.

auschopper · 17/03/2012 00:02

Bogeyface : I haven't put the whole bit up here as to why I have had to walk away..... and yes, the decision I made was not an easy one, it was one of the hardest things I have had to have made. When, the only thing you can see happening is that things are going to escalate to such a point were one thing doesn't work, it keeps escalating to something greater.

For example, false reports to police, didn't stop the police from arresting me. Even though, evidence showed otherwise, but nothing was done to the other party. Where was it going to end. At the end of the day I had to distance myself as much as possible from the situation, and put a complete and utter stop to it. If everything had been fair and reasonable, I wouldn't have had to go to court, and fight for it, and continue to fight for it. Why exactly should have even taken it to court in the first place.

Why should I have to have spent over £5000 to get what I did through courts, only for them to just ignore all the evidence provided.

Do I want to have had to have made the decision to have walked away, from my son, definitely not, and I do find it extremely offensive, but then again, it highlights yet again some of the members on this forum really.

Let me tell you, when the exDW gets free legal support, and the father doesn't, and has to pay all the way, there is a point where you have to say enough is enough, because you can't really go down to the bank and ask for a loan to cover a legal fight.

NarkedPuffin · 17/03/2012 00:08

Why not? Confused

auschopper · 17/03/2012 00:08

Let me put it this way....

When the mother gets full access to legal aid, ( not all but a majority), the only way that a father (usually the bread winner when a child is young) is to pay a solicitor out of his pay, while the mother racks up a massive bill.

I really do want to see and be part of my son's life.. firstly how can I afford to go to court continuously to fight for him? I have no money! Secondly, if the courts even treat me as a criminal and continue to treat me as if I was the one who has done wrong. I did no wrong.... I did not stop my son from seeing me, yet all along this journey I have been treated like a complete and utter criminal.

As for MN, there are a lot of people who do use this forum who do think it is wrong to use a child as a weapon, but there are also a hell of a lot of people on this forum who think that, well it is a man, therefore he is the only one who could have done wrong, and therefore it is justified. You just have to look at some of the responses to my message to see that....

NarkedPuffin · 17/03/2012 00:15

I don't think that's true at all. I think people are struggling to understand you giving up. Of course you shouldn't have to fight so hard to see your child, but that doesn't mean you should stop fighting.

DioneTheDiabolist · 17/03/2012 00:17

Auschopper, I know exactly where you are coming from. False accusations, arrests, injunctions and death threats. My family has experienced it all from my DN's mother. My bro fought through the courts, we all complied with every petty and humiliating condition placed upon us all when minimal contact was initially granted. We have dealt with the damage her mothers lies have inflicted on her and still do. But my bro would never give up on his daughter and as time passed the courts finally came to see it too and he sees his child a lot more now. It cost a lot of money, time and worry, but she is worth every bit of it and the time she spends with her dad and paternal family is so necessary for her as well.

You fought for contact and once the courts began to show a little faith in you and grant it, you stopped seeing your DS. I get that it was a hard decision for you to make, but you made it. The courts didn't, the law didn't, Mumsnet didn't. You do not see your son because you chose not too.

Bogeyface · 17/03/2012 00:18

I have fallen out with many women on here due to their appalling behaviour. Me and many other MNers. Precious or demanding or nasty behaviour gets very short shrift on here.

Blaming womeon on MN who have been where you are, the partner in an abusive situation and being crapped on by an ex, for YOUR situation doesnt change what you are dealing with. It just alienates those people who understand and would actually support you if you gave them a chance.

And without further details then yes, I will stand by what I said. You chose to walk away from your son, sadly your son got no choice in losing you.

NarkedPuffin · 17/03/2012 00:21

I have been treated like a complete and utter criminal.

I get that. It must be vile. I'd imagine it's how people feel when they're maliciously reported to social services and suddenly have people in their home asking them to justify why they should be allowed to care for their children. It doesn't mean you should give up though.

auschopper · 17/03/2012 00:22

DioneTheDiabolist : I did not bail on my son.... I don't think you realise how distressing it is to have to stand by and watch what is happening with your son, and you can't do anything about it.

Firstly, did I think it was the best for my son... most certainly not... I would have loved to have been able to be with my son, and spend time with him, and build the relationship, however at what cost. Could I continue to allow him to be used, in the way that he was, no, he doesn't deserve that at all. He was only 1 when we separated, and not even 2 when I decided that it would be best not to see him. It most definitely wasn't an easy decision that is for sure. Yes it was my decision, do I think it was the best for him and the only thing I could have done yes. Would I have wanted to continue being with him yes... but when you are dealing with someone who has a borderline personality, there is no outcome. I often sit and cry, and wonder what is going to happen to my little boy, and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. If I had the money, I would have continued to fight for it, but as it is, I am over £25k in debt, have no access to any money in which to fight. I would be continually in court, and as it is, exDW is spose to be sending photos once a month, and she hasn't for the last two months. What am I spose to do? Go back to court yet again? and then it just goes on and on..

I do miss my son, and to be honest, all I have wanted for him is two loving parents, and him to come first, and his needs are ultimate. I am hoping, that one day I will be able to see my son... and he will want to see me, and one day, he will get a pile of paper, that shows exactly what happened.

WorraLiberty · 17/03/2012 00:24

But what if you can't afford to keep fighting through the courts?

What if you're paying maintenance for your kids, rent/mortgage to keep a roof over your head and paying out for all the other things so many of us struggle with...like heating bills, petrol, food, council tax etc....

What if you literally can't keep racking up £1000's of debt?

I've known men who have done this...the courts have granted them access but the Mum still makes contact impossible by pretending the kids are ill amongst other excuses....each time it has to go back to court it costs more money and more time off work.

Where does it end?

auschopper · 17/03/2012 00:25

So who is going to give me a loan to continue the fight? What am I meant to do...

I do think there are a load of good people on here, not saying that the whole of MN is rubbish, what I am saying is that there are some who support it... The classic ones are.... leave the bastard... and make him pay...

NarkedPuffin · 17/03/2012 00:25

Yes. Go back to court. And back, and back. Even if you have to represent yourself. Because, if nothing else, you'll be able to show him that you never gave up trying.

auschopper · 17/03/2012 00:26

WorraLiberty exactly!

auschopper · 17/03/2012 00:30

NarkedPuffin I would have like to.... but where would it end... As soon as one avenue of emotional abuse ends, it just escalates...

There is absolutely no point in continuing the fight... and well, I think that I have got enough evidence that I tried to fight for him, and I have... I can just see that I am going to be back in court every 2 months.

The thing is though, how many women have had to fight to take the father to court in order to see the children... not very many I suspect...

DioneTheDiabolist · 17/03/2012 00:31

I realize exactly how distressing it is. It took us 18 months of fighting in courts before my bro was even granted supervised contact in a contact centre and another 2 years of court appearances before he got his current access, he is still paying off the bills.

Bogeyface · 17/03/2012 00:31

auschopper OK, I stand corrected that you are not in a position to keep fighting to see him. But there are ways of making sure that you son knows, if not now, that you are thinking of him.

Did you see the ad (possibly googlemail?) where a man sent emails to his daughter from the day she was born? Do that. Write to him atleast once a week and when he is older you can show him those emails (make sure the recipient email is kept activated). Keep the presents and cards that he would have had on his birthdays and Xmas.

Your OP implied that you have given up, but if you can show your son that you never gave up then that will make a huge difference.

Keep fighting for him. And you can represent yourself in court btw, you dont need expensive lawyers. Google it, worth a try?

SweetLilyTea · 17/03/2012 00:31

OK Auschopper, I read your posts again - and unless I've completely misunderstood you, you gained access to your son via the courts costing a fortune. Your ex lied about you. You weren't happy with the amount of time, so you just 'made the decision' not to see your son at all??

I mean, fgs! Get a grip and go see your son!

I can't believe someone has the gall to bloody write that and then post in support of F4J - for fucks sake, you've got access, go and see your child. Courts tend to increase access time after a length of time of reliable and successful access visits. I'm just bloody speechless at your attitude!

NarkedPuffin · 17/03/2012 00:31

I don't think that's true either. There are a lot of women who encourage others not to stay in relationships where they are not valued, but when it comes to the children people would never advocate using them as weapons. Just because someone might not have been a great husband doesn't mean they're a bad father. Surely when a relationship breaks down, the ideal is for things to be settled amicably and for the children continue to have a good relationship with both parents?

Bogeyface · 17/03/2012 00:32

Aus

MAny many women have to live without maintenance that a father is due to pay for the child and go back and back and back to court.

Do you pay support for your child? I hope so.

SweetLilyTea · 17/03/2012 00:33

Sorry if that comes across as disrespectful, I really am. But Angry !!

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