AIBU to stop buyng The Independant because of this ad?

[NowThenWreck]

The one from Fathers4Justice, where they accuse MN of:

"carrying abusive and distressing anti-male content which promotes gender hatred against men and boys"
and, apparently, labels "men and boys as rapist, peados and wife beaters."

The ad has a lovely picture of a sad little boy with words like "rioter" and "homeless" and "sperm bank" written on his skin.

I am confused, as I have never come across a thread on here where people routinely call men paedophiles and rapists. In fact, usually, if someone implies that a man being left alone with a child is dodgy, posters will pile in and say "God, don't you know not all men are paedos.?"

As I understand it, this is a forum for discussion, not a political movement with a manifesto. There are many and varied opinions on MN, and the minute one opinion is aired, another will be along to refute it.

Or should I just laugh at F4J? The ad is quite gruesomely funny.

Well that's getting into technicalities really isn't it. Like saying all investment bankers are potentially reckless. Of course anyone has the potential (pretty much) to be anything.

Whereas the statistics quoted by F4J are simply incorrect.

Well a bunch of F4J posters have turned up in the Liberal Conspiracy blog, much to the general bemusement of regular posters. One claims to be a mumsnet poster of 6 years standing who is fully versed in our 'gender hatred'

"Oh they talk about other topics alright, and i should know, as I was a member for 6 years. Should I point out that I?m a woman? I learnt all sorts of things whilst I was on there, things like all men are potential rapists, all women are repressed by men, all intercourse is sexual slavery, you aren?t in love with your husband, you are ?trauma bonded? to him (look it up). One woman talked about how she worried about her 6 year old son being a potential rapist, based on the fact that he pestered her for a biscuit because he wouldn?t take no for an answer.I learnt that misandry doesn?t exist, only misogyny exists. I learnt that men must be punished for their crimes against womenkind."

No links to back up these claims provided of course, although I'm happy to accept that amongst the hundreds of thousands of posts on this site, there may be one about a whiny child rapist-in-waiting.

Anyway, one of the LC male posters responded as follows, so I don't think they're fooling anyone.

"One of the truly weird thing about this campaign is that F4J seem really reluctant to spell out exactly the nature of their complaint, beyond that some nasty wimminz said some nasty things to them on t?internet.

When F4J produce the dossier of evidence of extensive, unmitigated hate speech, incitement to violence and criminality, bigotry and defamation that has gone unmoderated or encouraged on Mumsnet over the months and years, then I?ll be listening."

So, Mike is deleted by f4j for not totally agreeing and towing the party line . At No point was he abusive or nasty, he was just calmly stating his view and asking fairly straight questions.

From Nadine...
"Mike admitted he does not read the particular threads we make reference to because he is not divorced or separated. Therefore he is trying to justify the comments on Mumsnet, which he has not seen or read, to a group of people he can't relate to because he is neither divorced or struggling to see his kids. Which does rather beg the question why he is on this page trying to justify Mumsnet. Anyway he is no longer with us."

I had a lovely long post all typed out and MN crashed. How rude. Anyway Bogeyface made the salient point on my behalf.

AW - much worse things were said???? No they weren't, not in my recollection.

Yes posting 'all men are potential rapists' meaning that all men want to rape women is obscene. If it was posted that meaning all men have the equipment necessary to rape (under UK law you have to have a penis to rape) then no I might be a bit but no more than if someone said all women are potential murderers. If they were quoting someone else to raise a discussion, it wouldn't bother me at all. This is the internet, context is all.

Anyway, I'm off to bed. SweetLilyTea I'm with you all the way

Oh SQ why can't I be all concise and pithy like you?

I don't speak for F4J so i can't answer any of the questions~posts aimed at them.
I have however stated that in my opinion and it's just my opinion that many posts from members here crossed the line...otherwise why did some mumsnet members apologise and what prompted MNHQ to intercede explaining that very thing?

Oh, that LC poster sounds like the DaftPunkalike who was all over an AIBU thread last weekend (the trauma bonding thing gives it away). She must never sleep, given the amount of reading and posting all over the shop she does. No wonder she doesn't have time to grasp any context.

No posters apologised to F4J

Some posters apologised to MNHQ for losing their tempers in the face of extreme provocation

the thread is there for anyone who cares to read it

FYI, this gem has been up on the F4J Facebook page for over 5 days

'Remo Balboa: is this a dyke men haters site!'
11 March at 05:16.

So good to see them making a stand against 'gender hatred'.

Yes, "LOL" at that, narkedpuffin

Just read this one:

"my partner will miss his M&S meals...but he misses his daughter more, as do I. M&S disgust me"

She's acting like MN or M&S are responsible for him not seeing his child! Ludicrous.

Well this might be a bit inflammatory NarkedPuffin but I for one LOVE slopes or artificial walls to control water levels. whats wrong with them posting that?!

:o

F4J and their defenders - do you mean to be so rude ?

:)

Sweet it does seem like she think thats MN and M&S both mounted a campaign to stop her OH seeing his child.

Can someone explain to me (hopefully a F4J lurker, I know you are there!) how it is MNs fault that these men dont see their children? If they are prevented by the courts then the issue is with the judge or their legal representation, and if their ex is a bitch then the issue is with her? Where do we come into this exactly?

BogeyFace

They've also left up 'man-hating' comments from Justine. But they deleted the post inbetween them that pointed out they were quoting AN APRIL FOOLS DAY ARTICLE.

They're hate butterflies. They can't fix on one target for long.

I am sorry, but this is all a bit ridiculous...

I am actually for F4J, having gone through this myself.

Firstly, exDW stopped all access to my son. Do you know why? I was because I wouldn't allow the sale of a house we owned at £5k less than what was owed on the mortgage, and £30k below value. I then as a "equal" parent had to go to court in order to fight to see my son, and all the time was treated like a criminal. I wasn't initially allowed to spend one on one time with my son.

First court hearing, after 2 months waiting to get a hearing! I got one hour on tues, thurs and sat.. All of this disruption because my exDW had stopped all access. Then when we returned to court, there were massive lies and deception, but the courts weren't interested. I then got a whole extra 15 minutes a day with my son.

Do I think a child should ever be used as a weapon against the other partner, definitely not, do I think they are able to in the current court system, yes.

I have had to make the difficult decision to no longer see my son. Given the lies, and false accusations. Where was it going to end? When your son is going to be continually used against you, not once his needs considered, and a exDW whose vindictive and spiteful nature, and the fact that she is able to make false claims and mislead the court and not be pulled up about it, despite all the evidence.

Do I want to be the type of father I am forced to become... NO... I want to be involved in my son's life, and I miss my little boy every day. You see it all the time, children being used by (usually the mother) as a weapon to hurt the father, when in actual fact it is the child who is being harmed, but not having fair and reasonable access to the father.

I cry almost every day, to think at how my little boy can be used in such and evil manner, and can't do anything about it, especially when the courts treat the fathers as if they were criminals.

They'll be onto Sainsburys next for selling tampons :o

Narked, I thought you had written:

I hate butterflies.

I wondered where the thread had gone.

I'm not keen on beetles if that helps.

Has any man who has committed domestic violence or harassed his ex ever owned up to it?

It's par for the course for them to call the women they've harmed liars. It's part of the abuse.

It's sad because there are genuine points to be made and they manage to obscure them in a fug of rage and strike out blindly.

I have had to make the difficult decision to no longer see my son

I was with you, up until you said that.

It wasnt a difficult decision at all. I know men who have a similar arrangement to yours, a couple of hours throughout the week, do they "make the difficult decision"? No, because they take what they can get and hope that in the future things will improve, and because they know that their child will know that despite the difficulties, Daddy didnt give up. To them there is no decision to be made at all.

You walked away from your son and you want to make it all your ex wifes fault, but at the end of the day, you decided to do that. You could have (metaphorically) spat in her eye and made sure that you had every last second you were allowed with him whilst fighting for more. You would have a hell of alot of support here on MN if you were doing that.

But you didnt. That was down to you, not her, the lawyers or the courts.

You.

auschopper that is all very sad, and must be very difficult for you.
However, this thread began because of an ad in a newspaper stating that MN was responsible for propagating man-hating sentiment.
I know very little about F4J, other than what I found out after being shocked by this (imo) libellous advert.
The fact that your Ex wife may or may not be using you child as a weapon in your divorce is a separate issue to F4J attack on this internet forum.

You Ex may well be a total cow. If she is, that is not the fault of a bunch of people on an internet forum.

how it is MNs fault that these men dont see their children?

I guess it is just the view of some of MN users, who really hate men.

Yes, there are bastard men, but not all men are bastards, just like there are women, and not all of them are evil either... however, I do find on here there are a lot of users who seem to think that everything is the man's fault, and therefore the woman should leave their husband/partner because all men are bastards.. It is pretty entertaining at times really, cause I think firstly, how lucky I am now to have found a perfect woman, and my exDW was one of the nutters.