AIBU to think that WOHM's don't "do the same as SAHMs AND work too!"

[eppa]

Firstly this is not a WOHM bashing thread at all.

Its just that I'm a SAHM and have been offended and hurt by a couple of real life comments basically saying that I shouldn't complain as I'm only a SAHM and that WOHM have to do everything I do AND they manage to work as well.

I disagree with this because for me an average day includes: making and clearing up after three meals, going out to baby groups, park, docs appts, trying to think up and doing activities such as cooking and painting and reading AND trying to keep on top of the mess that having 2 children in the house all day entails.

However a WOHM would get DC up and dressed, drop them at nursery where they would get their 3 meals, do activities etc, pick them up and return to a house that was clean (or the same state as it was left in!).

Obviously both WOHMs and SAHMs work and they both work hard and WOHMs do parent when they are at home. Its just that I don't think its fair to claim that WOHMs somehow do more than SAHMS.

I think it's all down to temperament + psychology.

Staying at home with small kids was the hardest job I did, mind you no internet or mobile phones then. Wet rainy days with small squabbling kids, different ages so you never are home alone. Feeling unappreciated by everyone but also feeling you could be doing more despite painting, gluing (groan remember tedious boredom just thinking about it) and all the creative stuff. But things improved once older and could meet up with other mums for walks. No family nearby so NEVER got a break from DCs............ so working all day with (joy of joys) other adults sounded a better option then.

I worked FT when kids were older. V hard work, relentlessly busy, mobile phones then so kids always phoning with one thing and another. Also family used to mum doing everything so no help with housework (accept this is my fault).

A well paid part time job would be the best option so you are not guilt ridden about leaving small DCs and able to hire help and don't entirely lose footing on career ladder.

I think there is more to interacting with children all day every day than a lot of the wohp on here advocate. I work hard at developing my child in terms of language, social skills etc. I do this because it's what I would expect a childminder/nursery to do. It is not simply a case of bung them n front of the tv & do some ironing, waltz to the park them home for feet up time.

Toddler groups, craft sessions, baby gym type things aren't essential, a child won't wither without them, but they do enrich and that, as well as laundry, cleaning, cooking, shopping, running to every appointment & shopping for every sodding birthday are my job, and lots more besides.

I think most wohp would be furious if they thought they were paying a cm x per hour and their child wasn't being developed rather than just babysat.

There is more cleaning/tidying when you're at home, not tons more, but some.

So op YANBU, wohp do not (& can not possibly) do what (a good) sahp does AND work.

The years that I was a sahm with babies and toddlers were the easiest I have had really. Even with the cleaning, ironing, clinging toddlers etc etc.

And assuming that everyone who WOHM sends their children out to nursery all day where their meals are provided and the house stays clean is rubbish. I have to provide meals for my children while I'm at work, and they're at home making a mess/wearing clothes/etc while I'm at work.

there are so many permutations of sahm/wohm and issues affecting parents that you can't generalise at all. (but my life's harder than yours so there).

Surely WAHMs have it the hardest then? Since we are having a versus thread

If WOHP do more work then I think myself lucky :) The worst thing about SAHP is probably the monotony of the work and you can get into a self-pity mode. However, being able to meet your mates (with DCs), have a bath in the afternoon during nap time, not have to worry about getting the sack etc. is also pretty nice.

Why is it so important to you that people think you are working your fingers to the bone?

For me, when I was working 4 days a week it was far, far harder to keep on top of the housework. I was also much more exhausted because I would have to get up earlier to get DD ready to drop her off with the childminder where they (she) would get their (her)3 meals, do activities etc, pick them (her) up and return to a house that was clean (or the same state as it was left in!).

I don't know why you're trying to draw a comparison, because everyone is different. Playgroup, going to Rhymetine, thinking of different activities, going to the park etc is not stressful at all for me. My job is stressful. For others it might be the other way round.

I definitely prefer working 2 days, to 4 days.

Oh bless you for believing that you are hard done by for 'thinking up' shopping lists and activities.

gaviscon - of course they can if they work weekends, evenings or work in a role with their own children. Any of them will be doing what a good SAHM doesand working at same time.

I think it's all about the same. I work, DS has a nanny, i have a housekeeper, life is still choas and I'm running about from 6am til bedtime but proably less child based busy and more work based busy. I'm currently on 'holidays' so have nobody about to help me, but also not working - probably just as hard but in a different sort of way. Having said that it does depend on the age of the children. By school age being a SAHM must be much easier.

I understand why people are bothered about this - can't understand why people can't understand!

There are millions of women who will at some time be one or the other and there are things people feel good and bad about on both 'sides' - there are many part-time wohms who have the best or worst of both worlds depending on how you look at it, and there is always discussion to be had. I don't mind it at all. I didn't work much, then worked a bit more, now a lot more, but still not full time, and have also become a single parent, so circumstances change, children get older and need you around a bit less, etc. etc. There are some people who will still want to be 'there for' their sixth formers when they come in at the end of the day...others who kick themselves for not maintaining their careers.

I am guessing OP that you are feeling a bit prickly about comments from your MIL and are taking it out on the wrong people. YABU and a bit naive, sorry.

Eppa

Sorry if the response isn't what you want to hear, perhaps its just me then that doesn't don't know any working parents who use their childcare to provide 3 meals a day. I wouldn't want to do this anyway as I want to have more than just weekend mealtimes with the children.

When I come home from work, having collected the children on the way home, the house is in exactly the same state that we left it in that morning and any tidying up done the night before has more often than not been undone by the morning rush to get kids and parents up/washed/breakfasted/dressed and out to the car with packed lunch/sports equip/music equip/homework etc etc. Kids play in the morning before leaving the house, and I generally find that kids playing creates untidiness.

I personally know of few jobs with a "down tools" type coffee break which also provide access to phone/computer to sort out household bills etc. Some employers don't allow personal use of office facilities either. I might be at work but quite often I need access to paperwork which is at home , it all has to be planned and documents trailed into work and losing a chunk of your lunchtime being on hold on the 'phone is annoying. You don't necessarily always want your work colleagues to be able to overhear your personal business/any details of your financial affairs.

You mention screaming baby/whining preschooler, and your original post refers to trying to think up activities, trying to keep on top of the mess. Are you finding being a SAHM hard ? Could you speak to your HV about how you are coping ?

The only way you can truly compare being a SAHM with being a WOHM is by doing both. I've done both and I know which one left me with more freetime and less stressed overall. Having one "boss"/set of responsibilities to attend to is, IMHO, less stressful than trying to alternate between dancing to 2 very different tunes and the inevitable clashing of time requirements.

FWIW my 12 year old dd comes in from school most days before I get home from work, and BOY does she make a mess!

Well,

my mum worked nights, arrived home in the morning in time to get us breakfast and see us off to school, slept for a few hours then collected us from school and did the whole uniform change, snack, homework, keep us quiet occupied whilst making dinner and tidying round whatever mess we made since walking through the door, fed us, bathed us and left for work just before we went to bed (dad got the easy stuff IMO). so THAT WOHM did do all SAHM's do plus work aswell (plus study)

ArtVandelay Its not so much important that people think I am "working my fingers to the bone" but more that I do see being a SAHM as my job and I find it offensive when people say that I am somehow not doing as much as a WOHM. I suppose I would just like the people who have said that to me to realise how much I do.
Like some other posters I do try very hard to make sure that I do a range of activities with the children that are both educational and enjoyable for them, try to make sure they get homemade healthy food etc. I also volunteer for local playgroups and NCT so its just a bit hurtful when rl friends and family imply I don't work as hard as them.

Sorry, dunno where I got your MIL from having just reread your OP! I'm projecting I think :) sorry!

ok, well, let's assume that both do everything themselves and don't have a cleaner/partner doesn't pitch in. What is there to do?

get the children ready for school - both
clean - both
cook - both
iron - both
shop - both
bath and put the children to bed - both
And a big long list of similar stuff - including doctor's appts (you'd normally have to take time off for that if you WOH)

WOHM drops the children at school/cm/nursery and goes to work and puts in a full day/half day/whatever in her job, comes home and does some/all/none of the above
SAHM drops the children at school/cm/nursery and goes home and puts in a full day/half day/whatever with preschool children (if any) does some/all/none of the above during the day/in the evening

I've been both and I don't think either has it particularly easy!

Eppa don't spread the hurt around WOHM though!
The answer is for no-one to judge other mothers, rather than to deflect negative comments from one side by making negative comments about the other!

I don't think we are factoring in enough variables here

How many children are you a SAHM to?
(score double for more than 3)

Score half a point extra for each pet (query Do Goldfish count?)

Can your DH operate a washing machine / dishwasher and does he? (lose half a point for an affirmative answer)

Any WOHM who goes to work partly to escape from the children and/or their DH to lose a full point for each person avoided.

Both parties lose half a point for each takeaway per week (full point if eaten out of the containers to save washing up and lose 1.5 points if eaten cold for breakfast the next morning).

A "brave" debate to start.

I WOH part time and when DS was pre school age I thought being at work was easier: no-one shouts at/hits me at work, people are reasonable, when I ask people to do something they usually just do it. There's a massive amount of emotional labour in being at home all day with pre school children.

Now DS is at school I'd say being a SAHM would be significantly less work. I run around like a lunatic all day in the office and get home, do supper, homework, laundry, housework, doctor's appointments, etc. Those jobs have to be fitted around work and I have significant pressure from both directions.

Eppa don't spread the hurt around WOHM though!
The answer is for no-one to judge other mothers, rather than to deflect negative comments from one side by making negative comments about the other!

I think at the moment you also have to factor in the amount of stress a lot of people are under wrt their jobs. I'm ex-financial sector and it's grim. My ex-colls and friends who are in the middle of it are extremely stressed and being asked to perform miracles - while I still wouldn't say they're doing more that an SAHM I would imagine their stress levels are higher. Often when people say 'you don't work as hard as me' they mean 'at least you don't have to deal with my caahh of a boss'.

But why do you care? Some people do work harder than others. I work three days, have a toddler and a baby on the way, me and DP are both studying, don't have any domestic help with cleaning or anything, but I don't work as hard as my friend who is a psychiatric nurse and writing a novel or my friend who is a paramedic and runs a Guide group.

Life's not a competition, I think you're just feeling belittled that some of your efforts aren't recognised. A lot of mine aren't either, hey ho, but I know I'm doing ok.

(apart from the days when I feel like I fail at life ":)" )

You just can't compare.

I am a WOHM mum who does the school run every morning and packed lunches in the evening etc and I am damn sure that I do less work than a SAHP of a child with complex needs even if their child is also school age.

Some SAHP have harder lives than most WOHP and some have easier.

err that's it really.