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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think that WOHM's don't "do the same as SAHMs AND work too!"

876 replies

eppa · 14/03/2012 14:40

Firstly this is not a WOHM bashing thread at all.

Its just that I'm a SAHM and have been offended and hurt by a couple of real life comments basically saying that I shouldn't complain as I'm only a SAHM and that WOHM have to do everything I do AND they manage to work as well.

I disagree with this because for me an average day includes: making and clearing up after three meals, going out to baby groups, park, docs appts, trying to think up and doing activities such as cooking and painting and reading AND trying to keep on top of the mess that having 2 children in the house all day entails.

However a WOHM would get DC up and dressed, drop them at nursery where they would get their 3 meals, do activities etc, pick them up and return to a house that was clean (or the same state as it was left in!).

Obviously both WOHMs and SAHMs work and they both work hard and WOHMs do parent when they are at home. Its just that I don't think its fair to claim that WOHMs somehow do more than SAHMS.

OP posts:
igggi · 17/03/2012 22:19

I loved both those songs! I am clearly a mixed-up kid.

Pagwatch · 17/03/2012 22:24

Bugster

Because life would be much easier if we all tried to support each other. Because life is hard enough. Because women are still hitting the ceiling in their careers. Because career breaks damage women. Because too many families need two salaries to survive. Because some sahms are forced back into work when they don't want to. Because choices should be expanding not reducing. And about 100 other reasons.

And because when she grows up I want my daughter to chose the best life for her and her family without wading through judgy shit.

That's why.

igggi · 17/03/2012 22:25

The woman in Sheena's song clearly didn't have kids. Though with every night being the right time to make love, I'm sure they were on the way.

Pagwatch · 17/03/2012 22:27

Those lyrics are just jaw dropping aren't they? Sheena, Sheena

bugster · 17/03/2012 22:32

Well it would indeed be nice to support each other. I must have misjudged your tone, thinking it more confrontational than it was.

Are you in a position where you are foeced to be a SAHM, since you think career breaks damage women? Apologies if you explained that up thread.

Shall we just all say: I will be nice to you, if you will be nice to me, and I will not judge you if you will not judge me, love, happiness, tolerance, etc etc

jinsei · 17/03/2012 22:36

I have a career, not a job.

I just don't think you can say that for a young child there is any better situation than being looked after by a parent

Actually, it depends. We don't use paid childcare now dd is at school, but I genuinely think dd did benefit from the four hours a day that she spent with her nanny when she was a pre-schooler. Our nanny was a wonderful woman who has become one of my dearest friends. We shared very similar values an beliefs about parenting, and she built up a very strong bond with my dd - so strong in fact that, since we moved, she and her family have travelled 200 miles once or twice a year to see dd, and we also go back the other way.

Our nanny had a daughter two years older than our dd, who played with dd every day when they were small. DD still describes the nanny's daughter as her "big sister" - an important bond for dd, as we have been unable to have any more kids. Three years since we moved, they still talk on skype at least once a week, and share a closeness that I don't see between dd and any of her other friends.

Our nanny was able to give dd many things that we, her parents, couldn't give her. I think we all have strengths and weaknesses as parents, and she filled in many of the gaps for us - for example, I was very good at talking to dd and building her language skills, engaging in imaginative play etc, but the nanny was far more creative than I shall ever be, and came up with all kinds of little projects for her to make, things for her to do etc. She had a different style of playing from either me or DH, and I think dd thrived on those different influences.

Another issue was that she had a different approach to outdoor physical play. When dd was younger, DH and I were massively over-protective to the extent that we unwittingly made dd very fearful of things. The nanny was very careful but much less paranoid, and it was great to see dd's confidence growing in her care.

And then there was the fact that, thanks to the nanny, dd is able to communicate confidently in a third language in which both DH and I are fluent. We have many close friends who only speak this language, so it is a great bonus for our family that dd is able to join in conversations when we have guests come to stay.

And finally, I think it did dd a tremendous amount of good to build up a really loving, trusting relationship with someone outside of the family. Someone with whom she will always have a strong bond. Someone she can go to when she is older if she has a problem that she doesn't want to discuss with us.

So no, I really don't agree that a child is necessarily better off always being cared for by a parent. Perhaps DH and I have more limitations than most, but I think most children would benefit from having a few different influences in their lives. That needn't be in the form of paid childcare, of course - grandparents, aunties & uncles, close family friends also have a role to play. But why shouldn't good childcare also help to fulfil that role - it is perhaps the easiest way for the child to bond with another adult because that adult is caring for the child on a regular basis.

I realise that we were lucky to be able to afford a nanny, and lucky to find such a fantastic one. But certainly, it was a tremendously enriching experience for dd, and if she had been cared for exclusively by myself and DH in her early years, her life would have been poorer for it.

jinsei · 17/03/2012 22:39

And because when she grows up I want my daughter to chose the best life for her and her family without wading through judgy shit.

Yes indeed. I shall be happy with whatever she chooses, as long as she is happy.

Pagwatch · 17/03/2012 22:42

I think what may have happened is that you assumed I was posting to you when I was posting to the OP.

I don't judge anyone for doing what they reasonably believe is in the best interests of their child, so that is pretty easy. And I am generally nice Smile

I haven't explained any of my circumstances upthread on the grounds that my situation is unique to me. I initially took a career break because I chose to. I am a sahm now for slightly more complicated reasons. But had I gone back when i intended several of my peers had moved ahead of me.

jinsei · 17/03/2012 22:45

pag, I don't know the reasons for you being at home, but you always sound pretty contented with your lot! :)

bugster · 17/03/2012 22:45

Goodnight all

Pagwatch · 17/03/2012 22:50

Grin are you sure you don't just read me when I'm drunk?

Actually I am not drinking at the moment so I must be pretty content. But Bugster is right. Time for bed

Night all.

jinsei · 17/03/2012 22:59

Maybe I read your posts when I'm drunk! Grin

Pagwatch · 17/03/2012 23:04
Grin
CheerfulYank · 18/03/2012 04:11

Oh for the love of sweet St. Joseph in a sidecar.

Can we not just agree that people, and their personalities, and their experiences, and their families, are all different, and they make choices based on those things?

I never had "career plans" because I assumed I was such stellar writer that something amazing would just fall into my lap. (Yes, you may all point and laugh now.)

I fell to taking care of children, because oddly enough it turned out I was good at it. (Other people's children, anyway.) And OP, you'd be wrong when you say that childcare can't provide love. You don't teach, feed, comfort, rock, hug, and bandage "owies" on little children and not fall in love with them. I loved them, and the three boys I left childcare to be a nanny for? There is nothing about those boys that I won't remember til I die. I loved them, love them still. And I love the little girl I have been a 1:1 special needs aide to for the last years. She is almost nine now and I have been with her since she was four, and knowing this is our last year together (turned the resignation in on Thursday) breaks my heart. I love her. She and the three boys I used to care for are second in my heart only to DS.

I am leaving work because it will be best for me and DS and DH. Not all children, not all mothers, not all partners. Just me and my family. I want to stay home and renovate and clean and bake and do laundry and walk my dog and wear yoga pants all the time. Those are my priorities and my decisions, the same way I would like a big family rather than stockpiling money for DS to go to university someday. Those are my choices based on what I want and what I feel is best for my family.

I have friends who work all the hours God sends. I have a friend who owns a bookstore and has taken her daughters there since they were born. I have a friend to is married to a SAHD, and I have friends who are SAHM.

I have friends who have made the decision to only have one child so as to be able to provide that child with wonderful opportunities and private education, and I have a friend who has five boys under the age of seven.

They are all doing different things, but what they are doing is right because it is what they want. It's okay to be different!

HillyWallaby · 18/03/2012 04:33

Completely agree with Pag at 10.20.47. SO true, and sums it all up really.

CadburyFan · 18/03/2012 05:00

OP: "whilst I accept that initially you may not be able to go back into work at the same level, most people will be able to get back on track pretty soon. In fact lessons learned during motherhood and the voluntary work that alot of SAHMS do will stand them in good stead in this respect."

Unfortunately this is far from true.
I'm not saying that its not the way things should be.
Just that you are deluding yourself if you believe it to be the case.

girlynut · 18/03/2012 07:26

Having been a SAHM and a WOHM, I think there is no comparison.

Even whilst spending days keeping a toddler amused, there was still time to put the odd load of washing on or go to the supermarket. My DS2 would happily play in the garden while I hung the washing out. And I loved spending time with him.

These days I leave home at 7.15am dropping DS2 (3yo) at nursery en route to work. DH takes DS1 (7yo) to school because I'm at work by 8am. I work through lunch most days and get home at 5pm, having collected DS2 on the way.

By the time the kids are homeworked, fed, bathed, storied and in bed it's 7.30 and we can sit down for dinner before I start on an evening of studying (Legal Practice Course).

My weekends are spent trying to juggle quality time with the kids with housework, gardening, shopping and more studying,

I know for a fact that I do a hell of a lot more than my SAHM friends. Their regular references to me being superwoman reinforce that! Grin And that doesn't bother me, as it's my choice. What pisses me off is SAHMs bleating on about how hard they work. Do me a favour and get over yourself!

soverylucky · 18/03/2012 07:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DPrince · 18/03/2012 08:03

Having done both, I would say being wohm is harder. The fact there is noone in for 6 hours a day does not reduce the workload much.
However I think SAHMs have a hard job too. I don't get why people have to make themseleves feel better by bashing other people. Some people are WOHM, some SAHMS. Neither is a 'better parent'. There are planty of amaing SAHMs and WOHMs and there are plenty of rubbish SAHMs and WOHMs. You can be either and a shit parent. Everyone does what is best for their family.
I actually feel sorry that the OP some people feels that rubbish about her choices and life she finds it easier to put others, that have made a different choice, down.

MaMattoo · 18/03/2012 08:15

Being mommy when home (and wife friend etc) and being a cog in an employment wheel are different things. Just because I pay nursery doesn't just mean I don't do childcare when home - of course I come back to a child who wants all my attention, a house that needs attention, and a healthy dose of guilt when child is sick (take leave - guilt at work, not take leave - guilt as parent) working with a child now means I work to keep a career in place - I don't get much back after I pay nursery bills, petrol and parking. I cant have 'fun' at work as I run home ASAP and can't stay around for the chilling out Friday pub sessions. I cant bring work home as I never would have the time to get it done. It means I work harder at work and eat working lunches in my desk so I can be more efficient and mentally free when home with my child. Needless to say weekends become precious as you battle with paying attention to the house, the child, family, friends. Not to mention rest and heaven forbid if you have been unwell in the week.
Do I sound like I am ranting? Well I intended to react the way you wanted me to by starting off by saying this is not wohm bashing - it is. So my dear if you think being a sahm is hard work - you are right. But it does not, repeat, does not come close to how hard it is to be a wohm.

callmemrs · 18/03/2012 09:14

Well hopefully that's well and truly told the OP now!
If she has an ounce of self Awareness she'll see that starting this thread backfired big style. About 99% of respondents have rightly told her how offensive her drip feeding attempts to slag off WHOM are. If you're going to tell us mummy staying at home is the 'best' way and that children in childcare 'suffer' then at least have the guts to tell us on page 1, rather than trot out the old 'I'm not bashing WOHM but.... ' line

And ironically, the other upshot of this thread started by the OP is that most of us who have done both - SAH and WOH - have replied that actually, WOH is harder work overall. We're not moaning or complaining about that fact, nor are we saying SAH is a bed of roses, we're just giving an honest response about what we have found to be true in our experience.

So- nice one OP- shot herself in the foot on every level.
Not that I expect it'll stop her- no doubt a similarly styled thread will start up before long, seemingly benign but actually deeply unpleasant. Probably under a different name too.

Pagwatch · 18/03/2012 09:24

I have done both and the one I found the most difficult by far was the first five years of being a sahm so that is not true for me.
And mostly those actually spouting about which is hardest have had a big old axe to grind.
I don't this thread proves anything except how limited in imagination and small minded we are. People calling themselves 'superwoman' is about as crass as it gets.

Becaroooo · 18/03/2012 10:06

girlynut Gosh, we should all bow down before you, obviously. Perhaps your friends are being...erm...sarcastic?

Hmm

pag I am with you..for me, being a sahm is the hardest thing I have ever done. Added to that its not a job that is valued at all, by society at large, by family members and by other parents.

Meh.

I'm happy, dc are happy, Thats it, really. I am sure most wohps would say the same re their decisions - if indeed they had a choice (except girlynut obviously...she is too busy being "superwoman"....guffaw)

ZZZenAgain · 18/03/2012 10:11

I think definitely WOHM usually do a lot more and have a great deal more stress due to time restraints.

tantrumsandballoons · 18/03/2012 10:17

Mu own mum was a SAHP and she did an amazing job and worked very hard
I think its wonderful if you can afford to be a SAHP and you want to do it.

I think SAHP do a wonderful job

I just object to being told I as a working parent do not do all the jobs a SAHP does equally well, as well as doing my own job

I also object to being told I don't "parent" my children and they have been "damaged by childcare" by someone who is looking for validation.
If you are happy in the choice you made, you shouldn't need to put other people down on order to feel good about it.