AIBU to think that WOHM's don't "do the same as SAHMs AND work too!"

[eppa]

Firstly this is not a WOHM bashing thread at all.

Its just that I'm a SAHM and have been offended and hurt by a couple of real life comments basically saying that I shouldn't complain as I'm only a SAHM and that WOHM have to do everything I do AND they manage to work as well.

I disagree with this because for me an average day includes: making and clearing up after three meals, going out to baby groups, park, docs appts, trying to think up and doing activities such as cooking and painting and reading AND trying to keep on top of the mess that having 2 children in the house all day entails.

However a WOHM would get DC up and dressed, drop them at nursery where they would get their 3 meals, do activities etc, pick them up and return to a house that was clean (or the same state as it was left in!).

Obviously both WOHMs and SAHMs work and they both work hard and WOHMs do parent when they are at home. Its just that I don't think its fair to claim that WOHMs somehow do more than SAHMS.

Becaroo- shame that someone's post has caused you offence. But many of us have been saying EXACTLY what you do - that we are a partnership, and therefore we DONT hold with the quaint idea that one person should be entirely responsible for earning just because he has a penis, while the other person should stay at home to have total responsibility there.

Dh and I are a partnership. He wanted children as much as I did. He loves them as much as I do. And conversely, I am as capable of earning as he is. I wouldn't want the enormously huge pressure of having to earn all the family income, so why would I want to put that pressure on my dh? We share earning and home responsibilities precisely because we're a partnership

In your case, if you can't afford childcare between you and dh, then that's an entirely different issue and many of us sympathise. I said up thread: being a SAHP is either a lifestyle choice OR it is enforced through not being able to afford to work. Many of us are acknowledging that it's very hard to not have a choice.

Madonna I will no doubt be slated, too. I could be more tactful (to put it mildly) but it seems to me we can only further debate if we are honest and, while I know I should say I am respectful of everyone's choices, I think the truth is I don't much care what other people are doing, try to act interested and say polite things, but bottom line is I know I am right. Awful eh!

When you talk about how a child "fares" I would question the logic that moving to a worse area so you can afford to live on one income is the best thing for the child in the round. It oughtn't to be the case that cheaper property areas have worse primary schools / nurseries / NHS facilities / secondary schools but the fact is that they do, and part of providing your child with a good start in life is putting them in a position where they are able to get the best facilities they can get for your income. Which isn't to say that you should both work all the hours God sends and never see your children, just that it is a fine balance. But shades of grey are invariably lost in this debate.

I work 3/4 time, with very long shifts and occasionally when I'm so exhausted I want to shoot myself have a rant at exchange of views with DH where I say we should move to a cheaper house. But then I look at our local school, and the local schools down the road where the cheaper houses are, and it's a no-brainer.

OP - I understand what it's like to have a MIL who implies you've made the wrong choices - mine was a SAHM and puts a lot of pressure on me too - but you lose me entirely when you say SAHMs with school-age children must find something to fill their day. Being a WOHM means not having a second, let alone "filling" several hours...

I truly believe that anyone on here pyschopathically banging their drum for either side of this 'argument' () are clearly deeply insecure in their choices - otherwise why would you give a shit what anyone else did and why would you want the world to listen to and agree with your choices?

You'd surely only be bothered that your kids are okay, your family is working, you are fulfilled...

I know I am.

Even the research which suggests that a child needs a parent (mother) at home for the first three years says if the mother working improves the socio economic situation it's best for the child!!

good post becarooo

and all this talk about women losing careers, what happens to the women who just have jobs?

not all of us have a fantastic well paid career, most women I know have jobs that pay the bills, or pay something or other

MN is full of women banging on about the career ladder, etc etc, most people I know are just trying to keep their jobs at the moment

or maybe its because I dont live in the south east I've got a job not a career? who knows

Treadwarily, that's interesting.

I agree with the idea that once we are in a situation we can clealy see it's advantages and disadvantages so are able to fully appreciate them. So a wohm clearly sees her family benefitting from her being out at work and sometimes imagines difficulties are lessened. So a wohm can feel really good about her choice.
And ditto a sahm gets to recognise unexpected advantages of her life and sees aspects that benefit her family and, she too can feel good about her choice.

All the judgements on these threads are people experiencing that and chosing to judge more negatively those who did differently. I guess the gift it to accept that you are to an extent validating your choice however accurately.
And then perhaps consciously add in the realization that other choices will be different.

I think there is an extent to which it doesn't matter what choice we make, it is how we embrace it and how we make it work.

The whining and sneering is mostly from people who are not as convinced by their choice as they try to appear.

Hear hear pagwatch.
And look at how the thread started.
Ime people will defend their choices when they're attacked, but they won't tend to start the attack unless they have some personal axe to grind

ssd

Maybe thats why I dont regret giving up work? I worked in office jobs from leaving school in various mind numbingly boring areas (academia, nhs, private firms) and I can honestly say I dont miss it one bit

The money...yes I miss that, but I didnt earn a massive wage. I also dont miss the office politics, backbiting and general vileness of some of the people I had to share working space with over the years. (Met one or two nice people as well!)

I can now choose who I spend my time with, what I do (to an extent) between the hours of 9-5 and I dont have to make the choice of a lot of wohps wrt sick children. I feel sorry for wohps how have to use up all their annual leave on caring for their sick child.

I honestly dont care what people think about my choices but what really pisses me off is the - sadly, pretty general - view that sahms spend all their time doing "zumba" (still dont know what that is btw) and having coffee mornings and lunches...I dont know any sahms who do this...maybe its a north/south divide thing? Maybe in london/SE its more common? Its not here. (midlands)

I spend my time looking after my dc, doing volunteer work when I can, housework, and looking after my mum whose health is not so good.

Its hardly sex and city I am afraid. Sorry to disappoint you!

I also think you have to be VERY wary of interpreting all these "studies" into child welfare and sahp v wohp tbh.

Look at John Bowlby et al...his "reserach" was basically designed to make women feel guilty about going out to work after the end of 2nd world war and - horror and horrors - taking returning servicemens jobs!!

I also think Oliver James has one or two ishoos wrt women generally (and certainly his mother!!)

And, as they say, statistics can prove anything!

Ssd - it goes without saying that the less interesting your job is, the less you feel you have to lose in giving it up. That's hardly rocket science

yes, you can always find statistics to back you up

I agree with the posters that say if you are reasonably comfortable with / accepting of your choice be it SAHP, work P/T or work F/T then you are not particularly bothered about the choices other people make.

I do wonder if the OP felt she had no choice but to become a SAHM. Did her DH make any changes or sacrifices to his career or was there an assumption that, of course, she would make all the changes. I hope she can make peace with her situation.

or maybe its because I dont live in the south east I've got a job not a career? who knows

I moved out of the south east to pursue my career, actually. But I do agree that it's different giving up a job to SAH from giving up a career.

I honestly dont care what people think about my choices but what really pisses me off is the - sadly, pretty general - view that sahms spend all their time doing "zumba" (still dont know what that is btw) and having coffee mornings and lunches...I dont know any sahms who do this...maybe its a north/south divide thing? Maybe in london/SE its more common? Its not here. (midlands)

And again, I don't think this is a north/south divide. I live in the midlands too, and there's a whole bunch of SAHMs at dd's school who go to zumba after dropping off the kids.

Funnily enough, we all get on fine in RL, because at the end of the day, we are all just trying to do the best for our own families. I agree that those who are happy with the choices they have made are much less likely to attack others.

I do everything you do plus work as a full-time music teacher (I see about 500 children each week and get half an hour break each day working from 8am to 4.30pm 5 days a week). My children are both at nursery school and only have one meal there, breakfast & dinner is eaten at home. I take them to docs appointments after school hours and I do all the housework when they are in bed in the evenings and then I do marking and planning after that. I would love to be a SAHM but we struggle as it is and we both work full-time with no family to help out, I love school holidays when I can spend time with my little ones and sort the house out when they nap in the afternoon!

becaroo I genuinely didn't mean to cause offence. I should have worded it better. MN relationships thread is full of women who feel they can't leave their partners because if the financial situation. I had my 'dad' leave my non working mum with 3 kids and not a penny to her name. So I would always make sure I support myself. Plus in this day in age so many jobs are at risk, if the one working parent loss their jobs, what happened.
I understand that a lot of women don't have a choice. If you need Childcare, the wage for a lot of jobs doesn't cover it. I'm not having a go at SAHM's. As I said earlier if it's the best fit your family then great. But me working is what's best for my family and the attitude of the OP comes across that I'm neglecting my child, which I don't appreciate.
Hope that came out right this time!

showme I think so, yes.

I am sorry about your dad.

Thing is, there are no guarantees in this world...no guarantees that dh wont trade me in one day for a younger model...and maybe George Clooney will come and sweep me off my feet - it COULD happen!!!

I try not to borrow trouble ahead of time, but I can see why you feel the way you do after your dad leaving.

I actually would like to think I will go back to work one day...not possible atm...but who knows? Once the dc are older I could retrain or get a pt job.

I agree the OPs words are ill chosen and quite offensive and I certainly dont agree with them BUT the whole wohp/sahp thing really depresses me...we should all support each other and try to walk a mile in each others shoes and then there would be far fewer threads like this popping up on MN.

...oh and for every wohp on this thread who has been criticised for putting their child into nursery/cm and going out to work, I can assure you I have been criticised as often for NOT putting my children into nursery/cm and staying at home!!!!

You cant win so my advice is...dont try

I think you are all being unfair to the OP. The discussion Has got very heated but a lot of people were very dismissive of her initial post, and some became downright rude about SAHM, and I think comments about possible ill effects on children from childcare stem from her reaction to that.

Personally I agree that every family has to choose what's best for them, and I believe it's possible to be a good parent and have a gold relTionship with yout children whatever you choose.

However, I believe too many parents are forced into spending too much time away from their children. As was mentioned above a career is a much more importnt thing to give up than just a job, and do all of you WOHM who so vigorously defend it really have such great and important careers? I think some of you are over estimating the importance of your working role. There aren't that many fabulously important careers out there.

I just think it matters if parents have to work longer hours than they really want, when they would prefer to spend more time with their children. As someone upthread said it's a situation forced on many because of housing costs in the UK being so huge in relation to salaries.

The thing that bothers me is tht I think many people don't want to be honest about this problem (which I think is a problem for British society, needing to be recognised as such) and take out their resentment on those who are fortunate enough to be SAHMs, by belittling them and making out they are superior.

For all rthe complaining about the OP, this thread has predominantly been full of that nasty attitude.

Interesting debate, although in reality many of us do not have the luxury of a choice. I dont.

Am a single mum with older children, so I have to do everything a SAHM does and work full time. i do a full days work then stuff round the house until midnight. Nearly every night.

And yes my career is important, but more because of what it pays than anything else.

Surely a career only has to be important to the person doing it, though. I have no doubt the majority of the population wouldn't consider my career particularly 'important'. But it is important to me because I enjoy it, and it is probably fairly important to the people who directly benefit from it (only last week I was thanked, by name, in print, in a published lecture and, sad though some may find it, when that happens it gives me huge amount of satisfaction ). Lucky really, as I'm certainly not in it for the money!