We cannot agree on this obviously. AIBU?

[bjf1]

After reading through a lot of the Relationship threads on MN, I decided that I would have to have THE TALK with my DH.
I was very calm, so was he. We both put our own points across, and I, stupidly, felt that we had made a real breakthrough.
My gripe was that he did not participate enough, both with the DCs or the home. He argued that he went to work and earned the money and that he did not think it was fair that he should come home and start work againg.
I argued that, as a SAHM to 3 DCS, I did a lot of work too throughout the day, albeit not paid work.
He argued that he was entitled to relax in the evening. I argued that so was I, and it was always me that continued with the chores whilst he relaxed watching TV.
Anyway, I really thought we had cleared the air and that things would change. But they haven't. He has made no effort at all and I am still left doing chores until long after he has sat down for a relaxing evening.
AIBU to expect him to at least try to change his attitude or what?

I work FT and still do the chores while my DH sits down and relaxes in the evening.. I think YABU as you at least get 2 hours a day! (not helpful I know, I'm just jealous...

Tbh, I think the Oldest DC has a pretty poor opinion of his dad, which I find really sad. It's like, if his bike needs fixing I'll say "Ok, ask your dad to take a look at it". But DS will usually reply with "Can you do it mum, cos he won't".
Even if I,m in the shower, one of them will walk in and ask if they can have a drink. I shout through the shower screen to ask dad, but they usually say they've asked him and he says they have to wait until the adverts come on!
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind doing anything for my DCs, but it would be nice if they felt they could actually ask dad to do something for them/with them, instead of it always being me.
I would love it, and I'm sure they would too, if he could just put himself out once in a while and help with homework, or read a bedtime story, or share a game, but he doesn't.
The fact that there are always chores to be done in the evenings too just adds to my resentment.
I do know someone though whose DH is exactly the same, but she just accepts it as normal bloke behaviour. She seems quite unfazed by his attitude, which made me wonder if IABU.

I think you're having a tough time, bjf1. It sounds like you are doing far too much for one person.

Would it be possible to try and sell the idea to your DH by pointing out on how much he is missing out on? As clothes said alot of caring for kids only seems like work when you are the only one doing it. Bathing kids can be quite fun and you learn alot about them and what they are up to during their day at these times. Same with bed time and reading. Some of the most rewarding parts of parenting are when you do these "chores".

Well, to be fair, regardless of how slug-like he is, surely your children (the younger two) can wait until either the adverts are on or until you are done in the shower. The older one should be able to get their own drink.

But let's look at this. You've been doing this for what.. 12 years? Don't you think it's going to take a while to change it?? You can't really think you're going to say "honey, you need to help more" and he's going to just pitch in from that day on. It'd be nice obviously, but you've already said he's not cooperative, so I think it's something that you're going to have to start small and slowly add more things in as it goes along.

I have to admit that part of it is that you've ALLOWED it to happen all these years. DH knows that if he just sat on his bum watching telly while I was doing everything in the evening that there'd be hell to pay...

I do think, though, that you need to consider putting your foot down regarding the bookwork. Tell him you can't do it and let him deal with it or hire someone to do it.

I still think you're going to need to sit down with him again (and again if necessary) and keep discussing it until he's clear that this is not on and things need to change.

OP - you dont need a credit card for internet shopping, just a debit card. Your DH should be able to get a second debit card on his account or open a joint account in your names and each of you have a card. Or you could use his debit card and open the account in his name - it really will save you time.

Your DH has to WANT to help - it sounds like he doesnt want to. You could try to start getting your elder children to help where they can (they can help prep their packed lunches for next day, help with snacks, help with tidying up) so they dont see an example of mum doing everything and perpetuate it. When you go back to work, the housework balance needs to be redressed: if your DH starts helping out now, it'll be less of a shock to his system. Could you try implementing a household chores list - with chores for each member of the family for the week - to see if that helps? And I agree with others - either stop doing the bookkeeping or ask for payment (in cash or in housework) for it.

A couple of things strike me.

You are doing DH's books for him. So either he should be paying you a wage for that, or else recognising that it is extra hours work for you and doing a reciprocal number of hours on household duties.

It could be really useful to get a debit card for internet shopping - even if you generally use cash, put the money into the bank when out on school run, and then do the internet shop in the evening for a morning delivery. Would that save time?

I think you said the older 2 are 7 and 10. Certainly the 7 year old should be able to help with things like setting the table and clearing it afterwards, helping make his lunch and helping make his snacks.

The 10 year old should be able to do the washing up while you sort out helping 7 yr old lunch, and then make his own. So you only have to wipe down after it all.

Both should make their own beds, and put laundry out to wash (as should DH). The older 2 could help with sorting laundry (supervision may be needed, at least initially), and other chores like sweeping, hoovering etc. As well sa generally being expected to clear up after themselves.

Oh, and I would say that once the kids are in bed - regardless of whatever else is undone - come down and, assuming DH is sitting relaxing, sit down too.

OP I have to say that your H sounds like a lazy entitled fucker to me.

As a bloke I try to see the OHs POV on here but I fail to see it at all in this case. The problem is that he has done it for 12 years, to which the only answer can be to tell him "You've had it easy for too long and I've been a mug. Things are going to change one way or another" and for you to decide how far you are willing to take it.

Perhaps DH could do the shopping on HIS way home as another option - even if it means that you don't get a massive amount of additional time, it would mean him doing something - and more importantly, something visible for the kids to see and that you can leverage to make sure that THEY also pull their own weight. (Cos they will, someday, be old and mature enough to be let loose in the world, so as parents, we want them to be able to cope independently then, don't we?! ^slinks sheepishly back under a rock - hoping others can hear the optimistic and cheeky tone of voice as she fears it reads condescendingly)

Sorry, haven't got the hang of italics etc yet....

would it be any harder to go it alone ?

I don't think so

he would have to give you money, and you would still be doing the same amount of childcare and chores, just not with the added piss-take of him sitting on his arse in your house while you do it

and he would have to pay somebody else to do his books

Youoldslag - proposal accepted

SunRay -

Am always utterly speechless at the entitlement and selfishness of men like this

OMG OP. If my DH behaved like yours I would either end up killing him or leave. In fact I would never have ended up with someone like this as I value myself too highly. He sounds like the most utter waste of space and sadly you are enabling him to behave in this way because you seem to think you are of less value than him. Think of the examples you are setting your children, I really hope you don't have a daughter.

You haven't answered the question about whether he is paying you to do his books - I would guess not. I also don't understand why you don't have a debit card - there are ways to access bank services even with the most awful credit rating.

BiddyPop - I really disagree that the OP should use her children as labour so that the Great Man gets to sit on his arse all evening. I'm all for children mucking in, but not if it helps to enable their father to be a lazy, useless fuck.

Your DH doesn't even read a bedtime book to your DCs?? I find that unbelievable.

When I was on maternity leave, so was home all day (although was mostly out of the house), my DH went out to work FT and we still shared the bath/bedtime stuff and he cleared up and washed up after dinner, after I cooked. He helped with the laundry, ironing etc too.
Infact, even now, although I am back at work 3 days a week, he does the majority of tidying up and washing up in the evenings. I always cook and get stuff ready for the kids for the next day.

Your DH should definitely be sharing out chores when he comes in from work.

Look, while you're at home all day you should be able to get most bits and pieces done - washing, dishes, quick tidy round, top-up supermarket shop (not the main one)

I'm at home 3 days a week and no way would I expect OH to start hoovering and cleaning up when he gets in from work. My friend does as she's sometimes been too "busy" and TBH I can't believe her OH does it without kicking up a fiss.

However on my 2 days at work and weekends we both chip in and share the packed-lunch making, tidying up, ironing, etc.

I'm not quite sure why you imagine you're in the wrong here

OMG, why aren't your 7 & 10 year olds making their own drinks? Why is the door on your shower not locked when you are in it?

Why not have a rota of jobs that have to be done in the evening and you each do a share of them? The older DCs help you set the table & tidy up after supper. If your DH doesn't want to supervise homework, then he can put everything away in the kitchen. The older DCs are now presumably well capable of having their own showers & getting themselves into bed, obviously the toddler is going to need help - so one night you do the toddler, the next night your DH does it.

Either stop doing the books, or ask for a wage to do them.

Stop talking to your DH - start telling him what needs to be done.

Start doing some evening classes & leave him to it a couple of evenings a week.

YADNBU op-I am actually in a very similiar situation. My dh tbf does work long hours in a stressful job but I work hard at home with no appreciation. Like you I also dont have a debit/credit card as dh controls finances-apart from cb.

Things have actually improved a little as I now expect him to help out at the weekend-eg he will bath dcs for a change. I found the most useful thing in getting him to help more was to simply switch off his playstation

Dear Lord, all you women with no access to finances - did you agree to these terms & conditions? Did it happen as you walked up the aisle or when you became SAHMs? If you decided together that you would only have one adult earning, then surely, you have a joint income as a couple & the money goes into a pot that you both have access to?

Also why are DH's "helping out" at the weekend because they are doing some parenting?

Sometimes I wonder if I am in a time warp reading some of these posts.

Who cares about the housework? It's the fact he's not engaged with the children at all, or will even pick up a few bits from the supermarket on his way home from work, that is worse. I can see why you are worried, if you go back to work, you will be running the entire household, taking all responsibility for shopping and cooking, all responsibility for children and working on top. Whilst he does not.

I don't launch into a cleaning frenzy every evening, and I sit down about 8pm and do no more chores. I suggest you do the same. But you are right to worry that your husband is not about to step up to the mark with domestic and childcare duties, he thinks they are beneath him and not you.

I also totally disagree that a 5 year old is fine to shower themselves and put themselves to bed. Three and five year olds need proper childcare til they go to bed! And if the OP is doing all that, there's little time for housework.

Your fear you are married to a sexist man is unfortunately a reality, and no amount of rejigging chores is going to change his mind-set. Start with him doing 50/50 childcare on the weekend and take it from there (leaving him in sole charge for a day at a time).

I agree with the posters who suggest the older children should do more; however, I think they have the causality the wrong way around.

I mean: if the OP's husband wasn't promoting a view that the OP is everyone's servant, and in fact looked after himself and the kids a bit more, then maybe they would be developing a healthy sense of how to participate constructively in family life and contribute to, as well as benefit from, it. So yes, in other words, the problem is still H. Children just absorb what they are exposed to.

imo, sahps (or any parents) shouldn't be making beds for children (as opposed to toddlers) (unless you mean changing sheets?); they should get their own drinks(if you mean water? Or do you make them espressos ?); if they want snacks you can point to the fruit bowl. I don't mean you should disengage from them - children need parents to chat to, cuddle them, for reading and homework, etc - but the less time spent on making snacks (what do you mean by this?) the more time you would have for the good stuff. Maybe they should bring you an apple in the evening!

Of course it will be hard for them to grow into a regime like this while Lord Snooty sits on his arse all evening, modelling arse-like behaviour. Leave the bastard ;)

OK. Firstly, You NEED a debit card. My credit is fucked too, but I have a debit card.
Get one immediately.
Secondly-you have been doing the work of a single parent, looking after absolutely everything to do with your home and family with seemingly no input other than money from your husband.
He has NEVER done the shopping???
He never does bedtime with the kids???
Does he realise they are his kids too??

I find this whole thing really bizarre, and the cherry on the cake of insanity is that you are doing his books for him!!

Do get the older childrent to help out a bit more, sure-you should start to train them now to realise they need to pitch in and you are not their slave, but your husband is taking the piss massively.

If he was a single man with no kids, he would at least have to go shopping/wash dishes/vacuum/clean the bathroom occasionally.

As it is, he is doing absolutley nothing home related,even though he has 3 kids, and at the same time getting his books done for free while he sits on his arse.

I would stop doing the books immediately, unless he does something else while you do them, like bedtime or washing up.

As Any Fucker says, what difference would it actually make if you lived alone?
YANBU for complaining, but YABU if you let this continue.

LOL, the difference is that if the OP lived on her own, she would be doing everything she currently does (except the books) & holding down a job!!!!

What great advice you lot give!
First to go is the bookwork, he will just have to do it himself.
Not sure about leaving them at home with him at the weekend. I would be constantly worrying because he will just leave them to their own devices.

Callisto, when I was advocating the kids doing some stuff, it was so that they would be participatingas they should in the household duties. NOT so that "D"H gets to stay on his lardy arse. That's why I (tried to) clarify it in my later post. That the kids are getting big enough to be taking an active role in the household - like the 10 year old getting his own drink while DMum is in the shower, or at the very least, being able to wait until the ads come on for DDad to get it. Boundaries on all their behaviour.

But at the same time, I also said that once the kids are in bed, she should stop. And that she should start getting paid either cash or recompense hours of housework by DH for the bookwork for his business. I absolutely agree that she needs to get him to step up to the plate.

But I was actually trying to seperate the need for the kids to be independent and fend for themselves (with perhaps a slight added benefit of a little less housework having to be done herself) from the aspect of the DH not being involved. And perhaps I wasn't terribly helpful with rergard to that second part. Sorry OP.