We cannot agree on this obviously. AIBU?

[bjf1]

After reading through a lot of the Relationship threads on MN, I decided that I would have to have THE TALK with my DH.
I was very calm, so was he. We both put our own points across, and I, stupidly, felt that we had made a real breakthrough.
My gripe was that he did not participate enough, both with the DCs or the home. He argued that he went to work and earned the money and that he did not think it was fair that he should come home and start work againg.
I argued that, as a SAHM to 3 DCS, I did a lot of work too throughout the day, albeit not paid work.
He argued that he was entitled to relax in the evening. I argued that so was I, and it was always me that continued with the chores whilst he relaxed watching TV.
Anyway, I really thought we had cleared the air and that things would change. But they haven't. He has made no effort at all and I am still left doing chores until long after he has sat down for a relaxing evening.
AIBU to expect him to at least try to change his attitude or what?

What twofalls said. This really isn't about housework.

OP, you haven't explained about the lack of debit/credit card. I find that worrying on your behalf.

Your 3YO does sound a handful. Perhaps your HV could help you access help? Not saying you're doing anything wrong, just that he might respond differently to different parenting techniques.

How will your H respond if you don't do his bookkeeping?

Ok I have no dh and really dont know how to respond to that. But regarding your toddler wrecking your house. I have a DS (5) with autism who really does wreck everything. Have you tried getting him to help you? My DS finds it hilarious to try an strip a bed with me and loves loading the washing machine. If I get him to help I can sometimes get more done in the day. However I do think 2 hours is plenty to do housework. I can give the whole house a very quick blitz in an hour but how about getting DS to 'hoover' while you polish then come and help him. I don't know if it'll work for you but you never know

The bit that bothers me most is that you have no access to a debit or credit card - so presumably you are financially dependent on cash doled out by your husband to do shopping etc ?

If you could online shop you'd be able to get most day to day housework done while DC is at nursery.

Why do you need to do the bookkeeping? That sounds like it's part of 'his' job - yet he is refusing to help with what he sees as your chores , while he expects you to do his while he relaxes. I would do that at the weekend , on condition he looks after the children while you do that job.

Charge for the company bookwork or tell him you're not doing it unless he pitches in at home. I would do the teacher training even if it does mean takeaways, once the kids are at school you will have a lot of free time.

And a card is essential, that is the thing that strikes me as most odd.

I wonder why the OP is being so furtive about answering the question about the debit card

Get yourself a basic bank account and You will get a visa debit card as standard. There is no reason you cannot shop online. Who said 4 hours of housework a day??? Really? That is bollocks surely. I can do most of mine relatively quickly.

YANBU in that your dp is a bit of a prick who thinks he is entitled to sit on his arse. IF he is self employed and you do his books, demand a wage. Or tell him he helps out more. He needs to realise the day doesn't end when he sits down. But it also sounds like you could organise your time a bit better too so you can relax in the evening too.

Some of this (not just the OP) is unbelieveable! Your hours a day doing housework? What on earth are you doing? How do you think families where both parents work out manage! And all this "wrestle or cajole child into car seat". Duh - your the adult, pic them up and strap them in, stop enabling bad behavior! And an hour to clear up toys? Five minutes max chucking them in a box.

And why/ how do you manage with no access to cash? Do you get 'housekeeping'?

In two hours a day you should be able to get the shopping and housework (hovering, washing, dusting, bathrooms) done we have a
massive house and I manage in less than that. Then I agre with the poster who said "clock off" that's what I do at 7.30. The booking thing is more tricky. It might be better when you go back to work as you might find a happy medium with the cleaning.

I have said this til I'm blue in the face (not read all of thread so don't know nitty gritty I admit).

I work FT - very big, busy, stressful job.

I would NEVER be so selfish and arrogant and disrespectful as to think I can swan in, grab a G&T and sit in front of the telly while my SAH dh sorts the kids and the house out.

When I get home and the house is tidy, the kids have eaten, done homework, been to after school clubs etc etc - who do I think did all that - the Housework Fairies?! No he did. He has been bloody busy all day (he runs a business too but didn't when dc were younger).

I take over when I get in - bath, bedtime, any tidying or washing after that. THEN I flop at 8.30 and have the relaxation time I crave. As does my dh.

OP you are NOT BEING UNREASONABLE.

Try getting him to divide the evening duties a bit.

Have your 10yo set out their clothing and school stuff for the next day, and then have them sit with your 3yo while you set out the clothing and school stuff for the 5yo and clothing for the 3yo. You can have your 5yo come with you which will give you the opportunity to start showing them what they need to set out so they can learn to do it themselves.

Have your DH do the bedtimes for the younger two, while you and 10yo do the washing up, quick tidying up (toys, etc), and packing lunches for the next day. It gives your DH some 1 on 1 time with each child, he can read them each a story, etc.

That gives you a bit more time in the evening.

My DH does the bedtimes for our 5yo and 2yo every evening. We each take turns cooking the tea in the evening, and whoever is not cooking is with the children, attempting to tidy up the living room and running the vacuum around it if needed.

DH works in the very early mornings until the afternoon, so morning stuff is pretty much mine by default. On weekends, all duties are shared, although he still does bedtimes, as that is routine.

I definitely think your two older children can be helping out, but then so can your DH. A 10yo can easily be helping with washing up, folding clothes, sweeping, vacuuming, dusting, and sorting their own room (making bed, putting away clothing, and such). A 5yo can help with setting the table, putting away their clothing (with some general instruction), helping to make their bed. I'm sure there's more you can come up with, depending on what needs to be done.

DH is fully aware that the only reason he is able to work at his job is because I am taking care of the children and the household at home while he is gone.

"Have your DH do X" and "Get your DH to do Y". Anyone have any practical ways for the op to do this?

I suppose just sitting down with him and saying "let's try this tonight and see if it will give us both more time to relax together this evening." Can't hurt, right?

Practical ways to do it would be to talk to him.

Did you read the OP?

She's talked to him. He doesn't think that anything in the home falls under his remit.

Then she needs to speak to him again. Sorry, as much as I would like to say just sit down in the evening and not do anything so she can prove a point, doesn't that really just escalate things?

They're a couple. They need to learn to communicate. If last time didn't work, talk to him again. She could speak to him about what little time she has in the evening. She could always approach it from the angle that :
a- if she is doing all these other things in the evening without assistance, then she no longer has the time to do the bookkeeping, so he will need to find someone else to do it (and pay them)
b- she would like to spend more time with him enjoying the evening together, and this (him helping) would allow that.

When I talk to DH about stuff that he's reluctant on, I generally try to make sure to point out how it will benefit BOTH of us in the long run.

Do you and your DP go out alone or do anything non-child related? Cinema? Dinner? Pub quiz? It all sounds a bit joyless and dreary and that can shift things out of perspective.

Why don't you work out what house stuff you can get done when your three year old is there and focus on that. And then try and get the rest done when they are at nursery. Or find some mums and tots or similar to go to?

God.

These sorts of threads make me so full of impotent rage. I cannot believe there are still Neanderthals men out there like this. And that there are women that marry them.

I have no advice. I honestly don't. I cannot fathom how you would even begin to change a man like this.

What's your sex life like, out of interest? Not a prurient interest - but I bet it's pretty much non existent. Surprising the number of men who can't even put one and one together and realise that treating your wife like a skivvy makes her passion and desire for you dwindle to less than zero. Way less than zero. :(

Proudnscary. I want to marry you.

Merchant- you have hit the nail on the head. The sexiest thing a man can do for his partner is empty the dishwasher. It sounds mad but when all your energies have gone into housework, cooking, and childcare, the last thing you want to do is force yourself to try and feel randy for someone else's benefit.

Wipsglitter, so what that you can do housework so much faster than other people? What do you want, a round of applause?

I don't know how people do housework so quickly, but I can't. It might be because I have two messy dogs, a solid fuel heating system, no tumble drier and no dishwasher. I don't know.

I do know how people who work do hours of housework because until very recently both me and DH did work. This is how we do it. There are 15 hours of housework a week to do in our house, plus dealing with the fire if anybody wants hot water, cooking and washing up. DH does the cooking most days. On Saturday, I write down all the rest of the housework in a list of 10 min jobs. Over the course of Saturday and Sunday, me, DS (13) and DD (10) do 5 hours of housework each, ticking off from the job list as we go along.

Crikey, where to start?
Okay, I do not have a dishwasher, no credit card due to bad credit rating from way back in my youthful UNI days, clothesofsand has got it in one, the posts on how to cut down on housework and do it faster are interesting, but not really the advice I was looking for TBH.
I think it doesn't really have anything to do with how long it takes me to do the housework in the daytime with a manic 3 year old. Unfortunately, I am just going to have to grit my teeth and put everything away on very high shelves to stop him trashing things.
It really is, it seems, all down to a lack of interaction in the evenings and at weekends. I do all the cooking, washing pots, bathing kids, making up packed lunches, organising clothes for the next day, putting the DCs to bed, getting them drinks and snacks, helping with homework, and generally just interacting with them, ie, watching TV or playing a game. So my evenings are pretty full, along with the bookwork, and these are things that can't be done in the daytime.
Whilst all this family activity is occurring, DH is watching what he wants on the TV, reclining. THAT is my biggest gripe. Not so much the chore thing, although it would be nice if he washed pots or cooked for a change.
Also makes me when I see families shopping at the weekend TOGETHER, Dads too.
Think I've answered all the questions, but I would like to ask how I can get DH to see my point when I have already talked to him about this and he thinks things are okay as they are.

OP, I don't know what to advise. Ultimatums and threats may not work. You've had a long talk. I don't know. Maybe shock tactics? "I am leaving unless you help. . None of my friends do this- it's only you that does this". I don't know. You know him best. He needs to see this can't go on. If you let it, you will enable him to be a lazy arse even longer and you will end up irrevocably hating him.

What I will say is this: what kind of a husband is he that is content to see his wife so unhappy?

Can anyone outside your marriage have a word with him? Does his mother doe everything for his father? is it a blueprint from his upbringing?

I don't know what you can do but You are not alone and I sympathise.

Being a parent is a 24/7 job. You don't get time off just for having a job. it doesn't make him special. it doesn't make him different from all the other parents who stagger in from a day's work and still have to do the child care and chores.

OP, does he do anything at all with the children over the weekend? How does your 10 your old feel about it? Do you do anything as a family at the weekend?

As for the bank card thing, is there not a way around that? Can you not be put on his account as the second account holder and get a card? Or can't he just leave you his card details to do the online shopping. I know this is a bit besides the point of your actual issue, but I still think you could do with a debit card.

I agree OP, this thread really went off track. The real issue is your DH being disengaged with family life and behaving like a twat. You need to talk to him, but you say you already do that and nothing went in. How about going away one weekend and leaving him to it, then having the chat?

I also think you have doing his books as a bargaining chip. You do his books whilst he does bedtime or takes the kids out at the weekend. You have to find a way to compromise on this and I honestly think you need to stop making his life so easy. So I would stop doing the stuff that is for him tbh (washing, ironing, his books) until he meets you hafl way.

First of all then, I would say you need to get his attention. Tell him you no longer have the time to do his bookkeeping and advise him he needs to find someone to hire to do this duty if he is not prepared to do it himself.

Then, when you have his attention.. go from there. But be prepared to stick to it. If you say you can't do it, you have to be prepared to follow through.