to really not identify with the feminist boards on here, when i always thought I was a feminist

[DinahMoHum]

seems so joyless and anti sex.

I feel very conflicted now. I always thought feminism was about equality for women, which I dont believe we have, but it seems to re\lly be focusing on the wrong issues for me, and getting too much into dynamics of personal relationships, and peoples sexual preferences

im probably being unreasonable

re producing evidence... I find that a lot of times people are asked for evidence and all they can ofer is 'well I like and I am a woman and a feminist so how can it possibly be mysogynistic?'. Quite often people seem unable to grasp the concept of things being normalised through years of mysogyny even when other people do provide actual evidence that this is the case.

QUICK - my point was you get this throughout mns and I personally have found bun fights, extreme views and disrespectful posters to be less frequent than some other forums here

Beach - Yes, although I do think it is inevitably much more intellectual. And I do think that will be intimidating to some posters

I don't think it's rude to disagree either, katie. But it is rude to assume from the outset that your argument is nuanced and everyone else's is black and white.

It may seem that way to you, but - if we're talking tone - that is the sort of tone that, to me, comes across as rude.

(And obviously I don't mean 'you' I mean 'one', anyone.)

"So is the upshot of this thread that the FWR section is exactly like any other section on MN?

This, exactly.

If threads about threads are against the rules, why aren't threads about sections.

This just seems to be yet another excuse to attack the feminists on Mumnset.

I agree Doom, but I think Catgirl was just plucking a random example rather than saying that is what always happens.

True Hester. I have taken on board what you and Katie have said and I will post in there if I feel I have anything to say.

One thing though, I like to go on threads where I disagree with the premise because I think that's how you learn the most. I like to challenge people's views, not because I think they are wrong and I am right but because I am interested in why they hold that view, what if anything would change it, what formed it. I am not (rarely) seeking to change peoples views, but I am always seeking to understand them and where they come from. (Except sometimes when I am a bit pissed and beligerant, then I am of course totally right about everything :) )

I wonder if that is the cause of the "tone" Hester picked up on

YABU to start an AIBU thread slagging off the FWR board. It's been done to death.

Vulva biscuits for all!

Doom - I am doing the unclear thing again - that was, as Katie says for example purposes rather than a statement about how amazingly deep and nuanced my views are

catgirl - If you only go on threads where you disagree with the premise I can understand you feeling attacked. I got the same feeling on the f word when I used to do the same. But it does give you a warped view imo

'There are far more attack threads about us, than there ever have been attacks in the feminist section'

Perhaps there should be a reasonable debate about why that is. Why do people post about this?

The bin thread was in AIBU btw.

onesunny - Can I have the recipe please?

Cat girl if you're trying to avoid threads with the feminists on them, I'd suggest avoiding the ones in aibu with titles like 'the feminists are mean' cos they tend to be on them.

Maybe, Catgirl. Perhaps it's sometimes a clash between theoretical discussion and taking a personal approach. Anyway, it's 3am here, we're all up at ten to fucking six. I'm going to bid you all goodnight while the PARD reigns.

I'm not trying to avoid the feminists Alice. I am a feminist.

NIght Hester - thanks for the discussion - its been very interesting and appreciated :)

You said you avoided the fwr boards due to some of the posters there.

Yeah DefiniteMiss maybe someone could start a thread about it! Oh wait, they just did.

Well, of course it is, Catgirl. Like I said, if you're only experience is confrontational, then that is how you will find the board to be. And if you like challenging others, then surely you can't object to being challenged back?

I agree that challenging attitudes is how I learn best - the difference, I try to challenge my own first and foremost and post often with clarification of those in mind. Oh, and links. I love researching and adding to discussions that way too.

Perhaps people should just stop having a go at the Feminists DM.

If people disagree, then fine, it happens a lot on Mumsnet. Ignore them, report their posts to Mumsnet, take it up on the thread.

These constant "The Feminists are Mean" threads from people who funnily enough hold some fairly anti-feminist views themselves are tiresome.

We could just as easily start threads about the critics of the feminist section, because apparently it's allowed to go after groups in a way that it isn't allowed, to go after individuals, but we don't. It might be worht thinking about why that is.

It is terribly depressing to realise that exactly the same arguments and languagenhavenbeen used to try to keep women "in their place" since feminism first began!

Men, and some women with varius vested interests have been trottiing out the man hating, ugly, hairy, strident, humourless line since, oh, I don't know, the beginning of the 19Th century. Earlier?

yabu. Thats all

I do Alice, but its to avoid a very small number of specific posters, not to avoid feminists.

AyeRobot - I dont object to being challenged back, not at all - I post on AIBU all the time and get lots of challenge. Its not my only experience of the board either - as I said most posters are great