to really not identify with the feminist boards on here, when i always thought I was a feminist

[DinahMoHum]

seems so joyless and anti sex.

I feel very conflicted now. I always thought feminism was about equality for women, which I dont believe we have, but it seems to re\lly be focusing on the wrong issues for me, and getting too much into dynamics of personal relationships, and peoples sexual preferences

im probably being unreasonable

FWR board gets this because it's about feminism, Lesley. I honestly think its as simple as that.

Actually I think its the intellectual aspect of the FWR boards beachcomber. Not the political.

Frankly, I expect AIBU to be full of some pretty ignorant comments by its very nature and what the topics are about.

And I expect better behaviour and respect from a group who are interested in gaining more respect, power and influence and are generally more able to make an intellectual argument.

And the double standards that go hand in hand with that.

doom - sorry i was talking about the accusation that feminism board has people who have a go and tear every sentence apart. Exactly the same as aibu and chat.

Although I don't personally have a problem with discussing another forum here as long as individual posters aren't named.

"Here have another one then flippinada !"

I'm not quite sure what that means? Are you giving me a biscuit because you think it represents a vagina? I don't get it.

Sorry, lesley, I'm just getting lost. I don't follow why you said the post to me though i think we are agreeing? Sorry, very tired and not very quick of mind right now.

"I expect better behaviour and respect from a group who are interested in gaining more respect, power and influence and are generally more able to make an intellectual argument. And the double standards that go hand in hand with that."

Sorry Pica but I think you are naive if you think that. Feminism has always had bun fights, extreme views and those who are disrespectful. The only feminism forums I find that don't have those are those who are very heavily moderated.

Hester - you could be right

Katie - I still feel unwilling to post on the FWR boards.

I think Hester may be right that perhaps there is a "tone" in my posts that is antagonistic to the majority of posters and I really don't want to get involved in bunfights.

Most posters (like yourself) are great and I would love to feel I could paticpate, but I just feel that if I say "oh..ok, I see your black and white view, what about this shade of grey", (which I often do because I am that sort of a person) it will be seen as an attack, rather than a genuine, interested question.

I think Lesley it's being targeted because feminism is seen as a threat on other boards too. I have been quite shocked by the large number of posters just this weekend stating opinions like women who don't cover up are asking for it and SAHMs should do all the household chores because he's earning money.

I honestly think those posters who hold those opinions think that feminists want to change their personal situation without their consent. Which is of course rubbish. I also think many of them cannot think about these things because it would mean admitting that their perfect life is not perfect. And that is a pretty tough thing to face up to.

So it is easier to attack the feminists and the space for debating feminism rather than acknowledge the reality.

catgirl - I haven't been on the threads where you have felt attacked on the eminism boards. But I have posted grey comments as well on there. There are perfectly reasonable posters - I think it is like aibu - you have to ignore the extremists

I wonder sometimes if ambivalent attitudes about the FWR board are because some posters have only got involved in threads with which they disagree with the thread premise, or the subsequent posts, rather than also contributing to threads with which they are in agreement. Then, of course, their experience will be one of conflict.

"FWR board gets this because it's about feminism, Lesley. I honestly think its as simple as that."

I think you're right. Lots of people get really irked about feminism. This thread, aka "why I think FWR is horrid part no96566" has been posted in varying forms in something like a two week cycle.

I'm giving you a biscuit as you are trying to use it as a heckle. Have another if you want.

Would you like rich tea instead?

Well, it kind of is an attack to insist someone else's view is 'black and white' while yours is a shade of grey!

Do you really not see that that is rude? My understanding is that if someone says your argument is black and white, they mean it is not nuanced, right? And that is a rude thing to say.

Why not just say 'I have a different view' instead? Why start from the assumption your view is the more nuanced one before you even begin debating?

Maybe go back and try to see the questioning as passionate and engaged, Catgirl. Consider that you may be right, but that your shade f grey might be someone else's attempt to muddy the water. Maybe you'll feel he same way and not enjoy the boards, maybe you'll feel differently this time.

Sorry you have lost me pika.

Although I agree that feminism gets slagged off on MN for being intellectual. Which is rather a pity really. Bit like being attacked for having discussions about stuff which is outside of people's personal comfort zones.

Feminism is challenging - that is the point of it.

katie - I think you are right. Feminst thought inevitably challenges a very personal part of who we are and how we live our lives in a way that other forums don't. After all we may get angry at a benefit thread for example, but it doesn't challenge such a personal aspect of our lives - or at least it doesn't for most posters

So Lesley you are admitting that FWR board "has bun fights, extreme views and those who are disrespectful"

Wel,l that's exactly what people are complaining about. They don't feel welcome, they feel they will be shouted down if they have a differing view. If you are saying this will happen, why is everyone on this thread denying it

There are loads of perfectly reasonable posters Lesley.

But there are one or two who are not and, yes you get them on breast feeding and co-sleeping and dog breeding and every subject under then sun, but the "attack" (for want of a better word) that I expereienced happened on the FWR board.

Now, I dont think those posters are representative of that board or of feminism, but I know they will be on those boards, so in order to avoid them I have to, sadly, avoid the board.

Does that make sense?

You've really lost me now pickachusmate, I don't understand what you mean. Are you trying to be sarcastic?

I love reading fwr as there's some obviously intelligent posters and posts that really make me think.

It's not job of the posters in fwr to make everyone else feel validated about their choices or opinions just because they happen to be females making those choices and stating those opinions IMHO.

So is the upshot of this thread that the FWR section is exactly like any other section on MN?

I think, quick, that this thread in AIBU was designed for a bunfight, is extreme and disrespectful.

But that's ok.

I don't think it's rude to say you disagree. I think Catgirl's elaborated on her point and it's a fair one. BUT I do think if you want a board to change you have to participate. I bet if you went and posted on there this afternoon you would find people keen to engage. Possibly the odd knobber, but much, much less than on AIBU in general.

If you're not participating then complaining is not really on and will put people's backs up. I cannot say enough that one or two posters should not be allowed to dictate the tone or agenda of a whole board. Any board. It's not healthy.

"I think its going completely OTT about what actually IS abuse, and using examples such as a guy being lazy about putting the bins out, as a feminist issue and hes obviously a mysoginist and should be dumped etc."

Hmmmm, is this what's bugging you OP? Firstly that thread was in the Relationships section, not FWR, secondly nobody said he should be dumped.

Is that what you're really complaining about - that feminist ideas are being expressed on other parts of Mumsnet? I don't really get that, given that sexist ones are allowed. Surely everybody should be able to state their viewpoint.

Also I don't think it's radical feminism that gives feminism or radical feminnsm a bad name, it's threads like these, where people pile on to feminists to attack them.

There are far more attack threads about us, than there ever have been attacks in the feminist section.

No, it doesn't really, Catgirl, because posters are not corralled in certain sections f the board, they range all over the place. Most threads on FWR are full of posters just like the oes in this thread and run on a similar level. I can understand avoiding certain threads, but avoiding a whole board is a choice and not ipso facto a necessary precaution.