to really not identify with the feminist boards on here, when i always thought I was a feminist

[DinahMoHum]

seems so joyless and anti sex.

I feel very conflicted now. I always thought feminism was about equality for women, which I dont believe we have, but it seems to re\lly be focusing on the wrong issues for me, and getting too much into dynamics of personal relationships, and peoples sexual preferences

im probably being unreasonable

pikachusmate I have addressed what you said about the trauma bonding thread, twice now. I also asked you a direct question about the subject.

Would you be so good as to acknowledge what I said.

Perhaps the different reactions to catgirl's and Katie's posts stem from the different ways they chose to express their ideas, the different emphasis and expression. It's hardly a remarkable concept.

In the opening post the poster calls people joyless and anti sex.

Is that not rude? How can that be a matter of opinion?

Would you like someone to call you joyless and against sex?

I think there can be a sense of "attack is the best form of defence" on the FWR boards, but consider that some of those posters have been stalked both off and on line by some of those who troll the board and it's a bit understandable that when someone starts a thread for the umpteenth time stating that feminism is unnecessary in the modern world or whatever FWR regulars get a bit shirty.

Shirley - thank you for responding to me. I don't think the post was rude, but I am trying to see why others did (genuinely - I really am trying to reach an understanding here)

Surely it is valid for me to say that, against a generally very positive back drop I personally have had some negative experiences which have put me off, if that is the case (which it is).

The term "bad apples" was used specifically to show that I don't think the people that have been aggressive etc are representative of the FWR boards and are in a very small minority. It wasn't meant to be offensive.

I think naming people is very wrong as any issues are between myself and that person and have been addressed directly with them. I would not have commented at all had this not been a thread which seemed to canvas other peoples views and experiences. I have been put off the FWR boards by my interactions with a small number of posters, I do think the vast majority of posters are great. Should I not express this view or share this experience?

Should I have worded differently or simply not shared my views at all? Perhaps "bad apples" was a bad term to use, but as I say it was meant to express to the OP that I didn't think such posters were in anyway representative of the FWR boards as a whole.

I am very sorry if poor wording has led to offence. It was not intended

My reading of the OP was that the FWR board seems joyless and anti-sex. I'm not sure that's quite the same thing as accusing individual people of being joyless and anti-sex. So I would say that it's a matter of interpretation, ie of opinion as to whether that was rude.

I mean my reading of the OP was that she appeared to be saying to her the FWR board seems joyless and anti-sex.

SGM - I wasn't being rude. I was sharing my experience. My experience was that most posters on the FWR boards are great but I have found one or two that have been inflexible and aggressive. That is a fact, not an insult.

I think saying some posters are bonkers is similar to saying some posters are aggressive. Is it very different?

Given you're part of the FWR boards, catgirl's, it would be odd for you to see them as entirely negative. That participation gives you plenty of opportunity to challenge said bad apples on their behaviour when it happens. Where I get lost is how and why you would extrapolate those you see as bad apples into a problem with the whole section which needs expounding on a regular basis. If you've no problem with the board in general, then I don't really get your position.

What on earth has happened to my formatting? How odd.

But like all boards on MN it it made up of people's posts, opinions and threads they create to express those.

The board doesn't actually exist as an entity of its own. If I say the camping board is boring or the style and beauty board is vacuous, I would be insulting the posters who contribute to that board (and being disingenuous).

Beachcomber, another great example of a feminist board tactic. Question and then DEMAND an explanation when you don't get an answer. (though in reverse, you very often don't get the reply and you get dodged questions). Pinning people is actually quite aggressive. (Dolly your point about attack is definitely applicable here)

In answer. My problem wasn't just the subject. It was the fact that it was discussed seriously in the first place and then others posted intellectual links to similar theories.

There was hardly anyone on the thread was utterly horrified by it or saw it as being as disgusting as it was. Everyone else just sort of went "oooo its a challenging idea" or said it was just out there. I don't see it as remotely challenging. The fact it was given any level of credibility was just awful. I just felt if other "out there views" of that extreme nature were given that time of day anywhere else, the thread would have been very different. Instead it became an intellectual debate about the merits of the point.

So yes I did read the blog AND the whole thread. Never left me with a good impression.

The board IS the posters though. The text isn't joyless or anti-sex, it's not written in a font called "No sexy fun joy".

Well, catgirl we will have to agree to disagree. I think your post is rude, you used emotive language aimed at someone and it has the tone of wanting to put the boot in to me. Would you like to be alluded to as a bad apple? Would that make you feel good or not so good?

I'm not a regular poster on FWR (I love those nasty old feminists though) but the breathtaking hypocrisy of complaining about a board being hostile and rude while being hostile and rude is more than my poor old eyes can stand.

The only difference I can see Catgirl is that you said you were put off by the minority and I said I refused to be.

I used to be put off, but then I thought "sod this, I'm entitled to my opinion too" and got stuck in. After a few run ins I became quite good at "I understand why you think that, but I fundamentally disagree for reasons ABC" and I pull up posts that were sexist (regardless of the target) and rude. One memorable poster compared me to a Nazi sympathiser because I am not in complete opposition to the wearing of the hijab. I defended my position and inwardly thought "what a nutter". Did I change my mind? No. Did she? No. But our debate was still thought-provoking and I respect her right to post what she thinks and she possibly respects my right to post mine.

But, it is a tiny, tiny minority that I feel to be unreasonable. I'm talking one or two posters. Probably a much smaller proportion than on the other boards. I refuse to allow a vocal posted with an agenda put me off on any board.

My formatting is fucked as well flippinada

Which bit of my position do you not get Hester?

My position, very simply is, the boards are great overall. I personally have had a couple of negative experiences which have put me off, but those posters are in no way representative of the whole board.

I don't think that is hard to get.

I also dont think there is a problem with the whole section which needs expounding on a regular basis. If I did, I would start threads like this, but I don't so I don't.

I do challenge said bad apples on their behaviour when it happens, which is why I don't feel I need to name them or that it would be appropriate to do so.

I am not on an oppossing "side" to the MN Feminists. I don't think there is a "side". Even on this thread I would not say I agreed with the OP as I don't think the joyless and anti-sex comments are true or appropriate, nor have I seen threads about all men being rapists etc, so on those grounds I would say the OP was BU.

I'd love to pop over on to here more.
But the long and short of it is that I don't understand a lot of the long words so I'm really not able to join in.
Thats the truth of it!
It doesn't make me doubt that I'm a feminist though.

I have posted on feminist boards a little bit and have never seen the problems that are described by posters. Yes some posts are very intellectual, which I think is fine. That may not be the debate you are interested in which is fine - doesn't mean others aren't interested in it. And yes you will get the more extreme views, but you get that in every forum here - why should the feminism board be exempt

Tech's turned off the paragraphs!

There were paragraphs in that - I think everyones formatting is fucked

People are giving genuine experiences and reasons as to why they find the FWR board difficult to post on.

Instead of listening to posters' concerns and encouraging them to come and join in the debates, you are attacking them.

Which ironically reinforces exactly what people are complaining about!