to really not identify with the feminist boards on here, when i always thought I was a feminist

[DinahMoHum]

seems so joyless and anti sex.

I feel very conflicted now. I always thought feminism was about equality for women, which I dont believe we have, but it seems to re\lly be focusing on the wrong issues for me, and getting too much into dynamics of personal relationships, and peoples sexual preferences

im probably being unreasonable

I love the feminist board here, because it makes me think. That's what feminism should do - make you think, question the status quo, want to change things. Is that an easy process? - of course not. It wouldn't be changing anything if it was just easily saying 'yeh go you!'.

My dh is a feminist. He does not have a vagina. I've checked.

And he certainly doesn't own mine...

'It is striking, though, the way these complaints come up again and again and usually about FWR rather than the other niche interest groups I mentioned above.'

SN regulars get called Professionally Offended by some hecklers, along with complaints that if we want equality we shouldn't be asking for all that special stuff.

I was looking back through threads in FWR but a lot of the personal attack bits on threads I remember feeling a bit skelped on appear to have 'deleted by Mumsnet' instead of the original text.

ayerobot: the earlier comment about insults was because of the earlier thread. I saw what I thought was a poster being picked on exactly as I had been.

As I posted earlier in this thread - I did as I was told in the previous thread, did the research, and in the post (which you have raised here) echoed the Fawcett report. I didn't like the response to my post then, but that it was mild compared to the earlier one.

Perhaps this is because of a latent antifeminism that we have absorbed as part of our conditioning.

You do realise I made a comment about the fact that I feel like the only way I could fit in is if I accept that I have been brainwashed by the parochial conspiracy. Which I don't accept.

This is PRECISELY why I don't feel able to contribute and you've illustrated it very well.

"You do realise I made a comment about the fact that I feel like the only way I could fit in is if I accept that I have been brainwashed by the parochial conspiracy."

Don't you mean patriarchal conspiracy?

pikachu - sorry if I've got this wrong, but are you grouping me with the subset of feminists who believe that any woman who doesn't toe the feminist line are brainwashed handmaidens?

If someone feels exhausted for someone else, they should probably step back from the internet!

Honestly ... live your own life, let other people have a feminist chat if they want to, join in if you fancy or start your own if you don't. It's not difficult.

I like the FWR board. Although I believe anyone has the right to call themselves a feminist I often think that we (including me) don't really look at our actions and decisions in terms of context, history, wider and cultural impact etc and it's been a revelation. A lot of my "free, feminist choices" (as I previously thought) ain't so free and feminist after all. So I'm something of a conflicted feminist but I'm learning. And anything which makes me examine myself and society is a good thing IMO.

"You see, that's what Worra meant when she said she felt exhausted for you."

That new fangled book larnin' makes they females brains go all a-twistified and they don't want to act like ladies no more!

Would you say that about the conservatives saying something about labour? You know like "good lord, is there anything the Tories can't spin back onto the previous government?"

Or vice versa obviously.

Try not to worry about other peoples exhaustion levels Hilly, or you might gets exhausted by their exhaustion.

I know I said I was leaving the thread (And I did for a bit) but I really want to ask a question and get a calm, balanced answer. I am not trying to argue with anyone but this is bothering me.....

My stance on this thread has basically been

"I am a feminist but I don't tend to post on the FWR boards. On the whole they are great, there are some really good posters and some very knowlegable people, but there are one or two posters on there that I personally find inflexible / aggressive and my previous experiences with them have put me off. You get posters like that all over MN and all over RL life though and as I said before the FWR boards are generally very good and interesting"

That was then taken as really offensive by some people on the thread who said I was insulting the board as a whole, making attacks and being cowardly by not naming the people I had had issues with or disagreed with.

I apologised and explained that was not my intention and my posts must have been misunderstood and that as they had caused so much offence I would leave the thread.

Have been reading it though and KatieMiddleton has said a little while ago that the FWR boards are great but you do get the odd person who is shocking in their views or just plain out there, but of course you get that all over MN and all over RL.

I honestly don't think what she said and what I said were very different, however the reaction was markedly so.

What is the main difference between what I have said and what she has said? Have I worded my posts very badly so that they come across as an attack? How could I have worded this differently so that it was not seen as such but still expressed my view?

I am a feminist but I tend avoid those boards as I find some (and by no means all) of the posters to be aggresive, unwilling to consider others viewpoints and inflexible.

Of course you get that in all walks of life and on all boards and there are some great posters on there too who are very interesting and knowledgable, but the "bad apples" put me off, which is a shame. There is a wide range though and as I said some really good posters.

I note you say you are 100% feminist but do be prepared for other women to tell you that you are not and that you have it all wrong

This is the whole post actually catgirl. Is this polite? Would you like to be referred to as a bad apple? You're slagging off someone but we're just not too sure who! That's rude and hostile - again. Katie didn't call the ephemeral someone a bad apple or aggressive or inflexible as far as I know...

catgirl xposts but I think you are essentially are making a similar point.

Well, quite, pikachusmate. I assume you extend that to all posters, not just those you see as being the problem.

Again pikachu, please do have another read of the thread, and of the OP itself. Pretty hostile I agree.

In fact it's been plain old rude really. Lots if name calling, lots of pretty nasty stuff.

Not by the posters from the feminist boards though, no most of the really nasty and rude stuff is coming from the other direction.

I mean, if one feels one is being attacked by the nasty feminists, one should examine one's own perceptions. Is that not what you're saying?

I'm thrilled that feminism has raised its gorgeous head above the trench walls! I think Mumsnet's FWR board may have helped a bit. Having said that, I enter rarely and with caution ... You can have people saying the same thing, in such different ways that they misunderstand one another. The FWR 'voice' is different from mine, similar to the way I find it hard to discuss techy issues with folks who speak in jargon (though we all know the same stuff.)

I do believe the board's a fantastic resource for anyone who's just starting to question something from a women-friendly point of view. I honestly don't feel 'the patriarchy' can be over-examined or over-explained. And FWR is great at removing the cognitive dissonance from "Kittens of Doom"

Interesting post catgirl, would be interested to read the answer.

Well thats very much a matter of opinion Shirley. Many many comments I could point to you amount that one.