to give DH a stern talking to when he gets home?

[CailinDana]

DH's works full time in a flexible, non-stressful job that he loves, I'm a SAHM to an active but relatively easy going toddler. DH's jobs around the house are: cooking dinner each night (his choice, he loves cooking and hates clearing up), emptying the bins, washing his own clothes and hoovering at the weekend. That's it. Every so often we have a "discussion" about housework (ie I tell him he needs to keep on top of his jobs) he agrees he needs to buck up and he is very good for about a month afterwards. Then, everything slowly starts to slide. If I mention anything there's always an excuse: "I've been very busy," or some such.

This week my patience is wearing thin again. The bins are overflowing, and every week for the last three weeks they've been like that at some point. He's been ill for the last couple of days so I've said nothing and just worked around it because if I say anything I'll get the "I've been ill" and I'll look like a massive bitch. However, not long ago he rang me to ask if it's ok if he goes to the pub for a drink. I said yes even though I was a bit hacked off that I unexpectedly have no help with DS this evening (hate that, but I can deal with it) but more so because those bloody bins have been driving me nuts all week, I've said nothing because he's "ill" and now the poor "ill" baby is off to the pub!!! Grrrr!!

Am I being petty or should I tell him I've had enough of this? I mean, emptying the bins isn't too much to do of an evening is it??

Selfish? He works and pays for stuff! Why is that so undervalued? If my DH decided to stop working I'd be in so much shit I wouldn't know where to start digging myself out of it. Now THAT would be selfish.

Because I think your theory is utterly bonkers, Nyac. I am all for calling out sexism and misogyny where it exists but that's really just the craziest thing I've ever heard. I am no fool, I don't buy into a lot of the patriarchal double-standards still floating around in 2012. But I disproved your rule because it just bonkers to think men - at the beginning of 1920 - when my company was founded - sat around the board and decided - had an actual conversation - that ever henceforth, the working ours would be set to such a time and fashion that it would leave the workers wives at a complete disadvantage.

Bonkers.

And it doesn't work precisely because times have changed. I'm the breadwinner while my husband's business takes flight. He will have to fit things around me if I go back to work.

But you know, this kind of argument one I really can't be bothered being drawn into a discussion. I don't think anyone can argue with you because you theory is so far-fetched, it would be an exercise in pure frustration. So I shall leave you with your theories, concede defeat if only because I will be banging my head against a very hard, brick wall arguing with you, and I value my sanity and low stress levels far too much. I'm going to gleefully ignore the stairs that haven't been hoovered in a long, long time by either me or my DH and do some pregnancy for yoga after a very long week working long hours SET BY THE MAN

Yes, cleaning up after a man is all I ever do. Absolutely. That is all I do. I get NOTHING in return, at all.

So men started your company, they probably still own it or the majority of it, and you're arguing with me that it isn't a male-dominated workplace betty? Right then.

I never said they sat around and had a conversation, that's your spin. However men have designed the workplace to suit themselves, not women. There you go, it's not bonkers, it's been widely discussed an analysed by people interested in workplace organisation. It's why we've had to fight for things like pensions for part time workers, maternity leave, flexible working, because women with other commitments like childcare find it difficult to fit into the traditional male-designed workplace.

Or another example, it's why most workplaces don't have creches. When they needed women in the workplace e.g. during WWII, they had them.

bettybat, if you were to sit down around a table in 2012 with completely free reign to organise the working world so that it benefited the most people in terms of hours and conditions, would it bear any resemblance to the one we have? I know that it is a utopian exercise and wouldn't particularly translate in our lifetime but some companies (and countries) have at least had a go.

Nyac - Really? That is really OTT... Where I can find such an organisation, cause I definitely want to spend more time at work, to get out of housework... Of course that is why men designed and run the workplace... Sounds it would be an absolute delight in your household.. Better get a whip to the DH...

Look you were the one making grand negative statements about my life, DM. Don't get offended when I offer a different perspective.

"it's why most workplaces don't have creches"

Probably something to do with the cost of paying the workers wages, not having space, all the H&S procedures and regulations and qualifications they have to have. I imagine.

although saying that one of the larger (5000+ employees) organisations I used to work for had a nursery onsite, it wasnt subsidised though sadly.

All those things can be got around. Some workplaces have them, why not others? If it was that impossible to run a creche or nursery they woudln't exist at all, but they do.

Look Nyac. I accept that you have certain views. I accept that you have a certain way that you wish to conduct your life, and that's absolutely fine, really, if you're happy with that, good.

I get a little pissed off however, that when others have answered the OP in a way that doesn't fit with your views, you call them Stepford-like, or treat them like uneducated idiots that need educating, by you. This tends to be what gets peoples backs up, and is the reason that people tend to get a little arsey with you.

I realise this debate has moved on slightly from the OP but I can't quite work out whether the issue being debated is stay at home parent vs working parent, "men's jobs" vs "women's jobs" (perceived) or parenting / partnership.

Would the discussion take on a different tone if we were taking about two women in a partnership? I can't work out how I feel about it (and have presumably missed the point).

larger companies I agree totally, but its unworkable for most smaller ones. The place I worked could do it because they could guarantee a number of places to be worth the running costs. Not so much with smaller/medium ones. Also depends if you sare talking about company funded and run, company run but not funded, outsourced but with subs etc etc I suppose.....

I didn't call anybody Stepford like, please stop saying that. I made the comparison that the advice offered was Stepford-like - "Do the housework! Don't complain! Love it!" and that was only after pages upon pages of the stuff of people having a go at the OP.

I haven' said anybody needed to be educated, but if they're telling me I'm wrong and don't know what I'm talking about, I will back up my argument with facts. What's wrong with that?

You seem to be straying into YANS territory telling me how I'm doing it wrong and how you know better how I should do it. I'm not interested in your opinion about that any more than I was interested in hers.

Excellent question, Latsia.

My reaction wouldn't be any different. Maybe because I see it like this (in no particular order and I'm sure I could add more/have forgotten some):

Childcare during the day
Childcare in the evenings/at weekends
Income generation
Tasks originating from being a individual person that would need doing regardless of family status
Family tasks

Any comment about men/women is only pertaining to how those tasks have been traditionally divvied up and supported by society.

My two bosses in an orginsation of eight people worked out childcare for themselves so they could continue at work when they had babies, and the organisation made a contribution to their childcare costs. It was a female run organisation, although the board are almost all male. I worked with a PR company female run, and our contact there said she liked working with me because I'd understand if she might have childcare issues to deal with and wouldn't get all shirty about it, like male clients would - she also said that that the all female PR firm owned by a woman made it possible for her to combine her childcare responsibilities plus work. These are changes to the workplace made by women when the workplace is run with women's interests and needs in mind.

There is a thread in feminism about a cycling website where men have been posting 'soft porn' of women in Lycra.

The initial logic is this.

Men who cycle = 'lovely blokes'

Therefore 'lovely blokes' are posting porn.

Therefor even 'lovely blokes' are mysoginistic.

Therefor all men are mysoginistic.

Bingo !

The problem I , and others as expressed on this thread, have with certain feminists is that a good deal of your posting and views are built on a foundation that most if not all men are conciously or sub-conciously mysoginistic and swimming in a privalaged sea of self entitlement whist pissing on mass on womenkind .

Take those foundations away, admit that many men aren't mysoginistic and some, not all, of those arguments disolve and become redundant as do all those hours invested in propergating them.

I think that's why some people are so inflexible on these threads.

There's too much at risk to admit fault, that we aren't actually living in a world where men are all self entitled arseholes and women are suffering the effects in every corner of life.

This is actually bringing back some memories for me when DS was that age, He's 4 now and can entertain himself while I get things done. He was a climber too and I every time I would start something it wouldn't get finished because I had to go rescue him from falling off one of the bookcases or something :o.

I can laugh about it now but at the time it was crap! DP was at uni full time and working from home at night so couldn't do as much as he does now in the evening. So in this sense I do think you need more help round the house.

All I can say though DH aside is that as your DS gets older things will get easier. I know this isn't the problem but I thought I would offer some hope on that front!

Have you spoken to your DH?

Will be happy to chat about what you say on that thread, rather than this one, MrGin.

I've shown the beginnings of my workings out about tasks ^^ if anyone wants to discuss those, rather than drag shit about from all over the place.

All I said was "I'm a bit pissed off about the bins." He said "Yeah I know, sorry," and we left it there because DS was about to take a header off the couch. We'll have a proper talk later.

OP Do you do anything that pisses him off?

Glad you came on to clarify more Callin.

Would a good compromise be a cleaner in the future?

You shouldn't feel crap at wanting to go back to work.
I am currently eyeing a mountain of ironing (mostly mine) and would rather scoop out an eye with a rusty spoon then tackle it right now, as i think it is the most boring, tiresome, time - consuming chore in the whole universe.
As you are at home most of the time, you may notice everything that needs doing more than your H ,but if he says he'll do something, then doesn't, i can understand how irritating you may find that.

You need to find a way of tackling this that pleases you both.

'I didn't call anybody Stepford like, please stop saying that. I made the comparison that the advice offered was Stepford-like'

Technicalities.

• "Do the housework! Don't complain! Love it!" and that was only after pages upon pages of the stuff of people having a go at the OP.'

Nobody said that.

'I haven' said anybody needed to be educated, but if they're telling me I'm wrong and don't know what I'm talking about, I will back up my argument with facts. What's wrong with that?'

What facts?

'You seem to be straying into YANS territory telling me how I'm doing it wrong and how you know better how I should do it. I'm not interested in your opinion about that any more than I was interested in hers.'

Yans territory? You're quite happy to tell people how they're doing it wrong, and how they should do it. Quite a lot actually.

Anyway, I'm off to find a light-hearted thread. Too much navel gazing here, it's not a healthy way to spend a Saturday!

Seriously, we should not be having to have this discussion and it is a sorry state of affairs that we are.

NYAC thank you for being one of the voices of reasons.

OP I hope you and DH get things sorted out and that you feel comfortable in the way the chores are handled soon. Bet you didn't expect this response!