to think the tax credits system is not designed to support people that have as many children as they fancy and expect the state to pick up the tab?

[LadyLazyLongLegs]

An acquaintance has just announced she is pregnant with her fifth child. Her 4 children are by 2 separate fathers, and #5 is by a different father again. Her partner has a job in which he is unlikely to earn much more than the minimum wage. She doesn't work, and says they are heavily reliant on tax credits and housing benefit. Yet they are having baby #5, so effectively expecting that the tax credits system will just pick up the tab, as she has made several comments about how the tax credits will go up when #5 arrives.

Someone else I know who also says they are heavily reliant on TCs has recently had baby#3 and would like baby#4 in the near future. Again she says they can afford it as their tax credits will go up. The only working income coming into their home is that from her husband's 16 hours a week job in a shop, everything else is benefits.

What I'm trying to say is, those of us that support ourselves with no reliance on benefits have a cut off point of children that we can afford and we stop at that point. We stuck at 3 as that's all we can afford even though I would have liked one more. I feel that those that keep having child after child, totally reliant on tax credits, are abusing the system.

Very interesting though that so many of you are so defensive. Makes it very easy to tell who is claiming the old tax credits though, eh

No, i'm just educated in social policy and politics.

Fill your boots then Moomin. The state will provide.

Do most people want four or more children, but stop at two or three because of money?

Don't be so ridiculous , someone on a low wage will get a top up. They don't top it up to £40,000 a year.

If they did that we would all go part time

OK then can someone enlighten me on why it is a good thing for people to have an excessive amount of children when they are reliant on the benefits system funding them?

Ah, the Moonbats of MN.

OP, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

The thought of a healthy couple working 16 hours between them and taking home more than some couples who work full time is fucking insane, thank god they're clamping down on it.

Thing is we're not allowed to think it's not OK.

waves at Moonbats

Of course it will be topped up to 40k per year, or rather the equivalent net income of 40k per year as I'm sure you know someone on 40k doesn't actually take home that amount, if someone had a lot of children, Moomin. The more children someone has the more tax credits they qualify for.

Birds I'm not educated on social policy and politics, and even I can see the merits of a here.

OP I agree! I am on TC and CB and I live in a council flat. I am saving for a mortgage and both me and my DP work full time. It annoys me as I would never have more than 2 children as I could never afford. We don't have a car as we can't afford. But it seems most of my neighbours, who don't work manage fine with a car and 3 or 4 children. I agree with benefits for the children's sake. But sometimes it's not used on the child.

Like I said lady in less than a year we will be off it again and with the tax dp has payed in the last 15 years (high tax bracket) and what he will pay in the next 40 years I'm realy not worried about claiming £4000

You need a comfortable income and maybe then some to be able to afford to have three children (presumably while paying a mortgage/rent and all the bills which go with it) without claiming any kind of tax credits these days LadyLazyLongLegs. Good for you that you're in that position but, um, maybe that doesn't also put you in the position of being able to empathise with those who aren't so lucky?

Just sayin'.

What the hell is with this whole "defensive" hogwash? An op posts a inflammatory, uninteresting op, motivated not for the common good but because of their own selfish desires to have another child. And when people disagree and say UABU they get called defensive by the op.

Sorry but what a load of piffle. You decide how many children you want and can afford and go ahead. If you want another baby go ahead and chat to your OH. Don't blame benefit claimants for it.

You pay tax, some times you might not like where that tax goes. The technical term is tough shit. You still get free health care, free schooling etc etc.

I haven't demonised these families. But there's no law that says I have to agree with the lifestyle they choose.

I don't have a solution. I think some people need to have some more morals and social responsibility, ie not having that fifth or sixth child when they are relying on the state and the taxpayer to fund it. Just because I don't have a solution it doesn't mean that I cannot disagree with it though

"OK then can someone enlighten me on why it is a good thing for people to have an excessive amount of children when they are reliant on the benefits system funding them"

Who decides what is "excessive", do you know anything about how our society and welfare state has been constructed, so that we need top up benefits?

Those that can parent, should, those that cannot, ideally shouldn't, but income has little to do with it.

I'm always slightly confused when posters say that they wanted for example 3 children but stopped at 2 due to not being able to afford another one. What exactly is it that you can't afford? I'm not being arsey, just always meant to ask.

"Very interesting though that so many of you are so defensive. Makes it very easy to tell who is claiming the old tax credits though, eh."

PS - Wrong!

morals and social responsibility

Does that only apply to the working class, or are you about to start a thread about the evils of paying low wages or high rents etc ?

But people claiming huge amounts of tax credits for lots of children can't afford more children. That is my point. They haven't got the self generated financial means, instead they are reliant on the tax credits system.

Oh and honeydragon can you post a link to the netmums rule that says all threads on here must be for the common good? Most threads are about the personal situation of someone or other are they not?

Has somebody got a link to tax credit amounts for people who have four children?

it is very subjective what makes 'enough' money. I know families who manage on an income of 35 grand for 4 dc, and also those with 45 grand who don't think they can afford more than 1 dc. It really depends what you want for your family. There is no right or wrong.

I don't want to get into the benefits thing as I don't know enough to comment. My argument is simply that there is no x amount of money that is enough for one family. It depends on how essential they feel it is to have a car (or 2), a big house, holidays, live in a decent area etc.

Income has a lot to do with it. You should not need to really totally on your children as income. It's wrong! TC and CB are there for help! Not your salary!