to think the tax credits system is not designed to support people that have as many children as they fancy and expect the state to pick up the tab?

[LadyLazyLongLegs]

An acquaintance has just announced she is pregnant with her fifth child. Her 4 children are by 2 separate fathers, and #5 is by a different father again. Her partner has a job in which he is unlikely to earn much more than the minimum wage. She doesn't work, and says they are heavily reliant on tax credits and housing benefit. Yet they are having baby #5, so effectively expecting that the tax credits system will just pick up the tab, as she has made several comments about how the tax credits will go up when #5 arrives.

Someone else I know who also says they are heavily reliant on TCs has recently had baby#3 and would like baby#4 in the near future. Again she says they can afford it as their tax credits will go up. The only working income coming into their home is that from her husband's 16 hours a week job in a shop, everything else is benefits.

What I'm trying to say is, those of us that support ourselves with no reliance on benefits have a cut off point of children that we can afford and we stop at that point. We stuck at 3 as that's all we can afford even though I would have liked one more. I feel that those that keep having child after child, totally reliant on tax credits, are abusing the system.

"Pornyissue Mon 05-Mar-12 22:09:19
Hmm graham actually I think what pisses people off is they work and work and work, and find people on benefits are Infact more fortunate than themselves

So anyone on benefits getting more disposable income than the average working family is also lacking sympathy if they cannot see why this would frustrate that family"

I think that is the problem in a nutshell, its the perception of unfairness I think. I have to remind myself not to be slightly judgemental/jealous of one woman I know. She is pg with her 4th, has never worked, her DP works 20 hrs a week, earning about 18K a year before tax. They are engaged and she has a beautiful platinum engagement ring, they have booked a holiday to Vegas for later in the year (her mum having the DC for them), they have a nicely decorated home etc etc etc. I just don't understand how they manage to have that level of nice things.

We have a household income of about 38K before tax and have 2 DC and can't afford the luxuries they have, it makes no sense to me. But, like I said before I remind myself not to be jealous because we are in a much better long term situation than they are, even if I don't have expensive holidays and jewellery.

LiamsMummyJaz Blimey, I need to look into this! Thanks for the info.

If there were no tax credits, what would happen?

The power of laughter .

InSeine, if her partner worked fulltime he would earn a similar amount to your combined household income. does he choose to work part time? I know exactly what you mean, I often wonder that about people like that too.

Ooooooh am I!? Sorry! No body should listen to me!! Sorry! Is it still £45k?

MissVerinder I think a lot of DC would go hungry without tax credits

Oh are her dcs in care? Otherwise the state isn't raising them? I have 3, planning to have 1 more and claim cb not for long. The state isn't raising my dcs.

Well there were no tax credits until about 12 or 13 years ago MissVerinder and people managed. Perhaps people only had a number of children that corresponded with what they could afford?

financially the state is raising the children, petitema. What a silly thing to say.

Also, the family on 10,000 have to pay tax, so in fact they would be on 26,000 as opposed to the other family on over 32,000. That is a 6,000 difference a year. So the family with the £40,000 salary get £500 a month more. That is a huge difference, IMO.

petiema have you really not understood what the op is talking about!? I'm rather dim and even I understand!

Chances are the family on high tax credits will get free school meals, free dental treatment and free prescriptions too

Tax credits, of any sort are not passport benefits, so the calculations depends on overall income, not what is being claimed, as it does for everyone.

You can claim all of the above based on income, you don't need to claim TC to qualify,but receiving TC can take you over the allowed amount, so you are disqualified by getting them.

InSeine Precisely, and then what would happen to them? Care? Foster homes? Believe me, as a foster carer, let me tell you that TC are a lot cheaper than putting a poor child in a home because their parents are unable to feed them.

Where would all the benefit bashers be then? Standing at the door of the Sally Army with donations? Opening their homes to vulnerable children? I think not.

I still don't get why your cut off is 3, if you can't afford dcs then don't have any?

LadyLong I have never met someone who agrees with me so!

Oh my god petitma that's what the whole sodding thread is a-fucking-bout!

financially the state is raising the children

Because we have constructed a system that means state help is needed to have a decent standard of living for lots of families.

This comes from a EU ruling, to remove child poverty, btw.

But, LLLL You could claim something else, however, I can't for the life of me remember what it was called I used to work at DWP as well.

Liams your new aren't you? netmums is missing you

birds but doing this has enabled a lifestyle choice!

I was entitled to a goat but he was taken away to do workfare

My Dh and I pay vast amounts of tax.

Vast!

I do not begrudge lower income people getting extra help.

Most people don't try to work the system, they just want to get by and have some treats on occasion!

Verinder Yes, exactly. Its easy to be pulled into the jealous/angry/judgemental thing, but I try to remember that for every family that could be perceived as 'scrounging' there are many, many hard working families that are just trying to get by and TC keep them clothed and fed.