to think "no actually, the stress of stopping smoking won't be worse for your unborn baby than you smoking"

[UphillBothWays]

I'm fed up with hearing this as an excuse for continuing to smoke in pregnancy! I've heard people say this in real life, on TV, and now Stacey Solomon is claiming her doctor OK'd her smoking too.

Yes, quitting smoking is hard, but don't claim it's better for your baby to be exposed to carbon monoxide, cyanide and nicotine fgs.

I would have a lot more sympathy if they said "I know it's awful and I'm trying my hardest to stop but I'm struggling and have slipped up"

An unborn baby has no rights!

Sick. Sick. Sick

What kind of a sick person actually believes that in regards to smoking.

I am truly disgusted.

giveitago I think the issue on this thread is less that's she's smoking, and more that she's spouting to the meeja that she was told to keep smoking by her GP.

This means that either her GP is talking shite or she is, and by making this public via the meeja she is setting a bad example to other pregnant women who may be smoking.

Sidge someone pointed out a couple of times that Stacey was on Loose Women today and has said no such thing about her Doctor or smoking.

ArielNonBio, exactly!!

Bettybat, does this requirement for a patient to independently assess rather than trust their GP's view apply to all medical advice, or just the stuff you don't like the sound of? Sorry, but it's perfectly ok to assume your GP knows more than you do. I'd never be critical of anyone for wanting to do more research themself, but let's not pretend everyone has the ability and confidence to do so.

Yes worra but I'm bored of saying it now, she actually seemed realy upset. Said she was looking into hypnotherapy and electric cigarettes

I am a non-smoker (gave up when I was pregnant) and I have to be honest that I find the stance of other non-smokers so extreme that if I was anywhere near them I would want to hide and light a fag myself.

Regardless of the rights or wrongs of what SS is actually doing to her baby nobody knows how much smoking affects the unborn child - no matter how much the vitriolic anti-smokers like to pretend that it will kill the baby, it is known for a fact that actually it doesn't. It is also known for a fact that any injury is dose-related, i.e., the more you do it the more likely you are to get ill.

My personal belief as I mentioned earlier in the thread (it seems to have moved on a bit from before) is that when you are pregnant you are taking responsibility for the unborn child and you should give up. T

There is obviously the gold standard of what should happen (woman finds out and gives up) and then there is the practical element of what does happen (woman finds out pregnant, gets nagged by HV then falls out of the system because she can't face being nagged again). I am glad HV's and medical practitioners are taking a pragmatic approach and realising that constant lecturing does not actually work and just gets people wound up more. They are realising that if they get on side with the mother and build a relationship there will be a better outcome.

Agree Ariel.

Woman's absolute right to choose up to 24 weeks. But if you are going to give birth to a person who may live for 90 plus years than you have a bloody responsibility to that person who you will almost certainly love and be linked to for the rest of your or his/her life. You have a responsibility to eat well drink alcohol in moderation and cut down or stop smoking

I work with SEN children. A very small minority have SEN because of the actions of their mothers when pregnant.

For fuck's sake it's nine months of your entire life and the health of your future child is at stake.

I bloody hike my judgy pants way high and I'm blinking well proud to!!!!!

"no matter how much the vitriolic anti-smokers like to pretend that it will kill the baby, it is known for a fact that actually it doesn't."

Smoking does kill babies.

Smokers are more likely to experience a stillbirth.

They are also MUCH more likely to lose a baby to SIDS, which is still the most common cause of death for babies under a year.

All that said - I'm not a 'virulent' anti-smoker, I think smoking is a powerful addiction, and I think that all mothers who are aware of the risk to their baby that comes with their addiction want to stop. I know women who I consider fantastic, determined mothers who smoked the whole way through their pregnancies. I know these women are not uncaring or weak willed.

But I also think that we shouldn't accept weak excuses for smoking in pregnancy. Women should say: I'm addicted and I can't stop, and leave it at that. That's all the explanation you need.

As to medical advice: HCP are supposed to be giving evidence based advice and information.

If they are telling a mother that smoking is less harmful to an unborn baby than mild maternal stress then they need to back that up with reference to the research.

Actually I think it's utter bullshit - maternal stress can affect the well-being of unborn babies, but not in the same way as smoking does. It's hard to compare the impact of the two, and doctors shouldn't encourage women to think that you can.

Was just going to say what onelittlefish has said about hcps and the fact that lecturing and looking down on women could cause them to drop out of the system when what they realy need is support and monitoring.

fans flames

Smokers are like self inflicted lepers

disclaimer I'm just
Stirring shit out of boredom

I actually don't mind so much. I had the odd glass of cider pregnant. I wouldn't/ don't smoke but I just don't care about
Other people And their choices as long as its not in my face

(I'm so nice)

Smokers are more likely to experience a stillbirth

More likely than who though?

Since nearly half the women of childbearing age in the UK are overweight or obese, who are you comparing them to?

ah sidge in that case she's using what her gp supposedly said to give her an excuse in public?

I do remember one woman years and years ago who was actually told by her gp her health issues were lots and and it would be better for her continue to smoke than have higher blood pressure. This was way way before I even had the thought of wanting to be a mum so I just nodded my head at her. I'm guessing then that for her giving up smoking would mean an increase in bloody pressure.

No idea if that's true.

"If a woman has cancer and she's pregnant, is she allowed to take cancer-curing drugs even though they will probably harm her baby? Ok it's a bit of an extreme comparison and therefore a bit sneaky because cancer can affect even those who make good lifestyle choices, whereas smoking is taken up voluntarily, but the principle remains. You either believe the life of the mother is paramount or that the baby takes precedence over the mother while in the womb."

It's a bit more complex than that.

Taking a cancer drug may save the mothers life, not taking it may at least save the baby. Or either way, both still may sadly die.

Smoking in pregnancy is not the same. The cancer drug is hopefully a lifesaver, something smoking will never be. In this case the life of the mother is not paramount because she won't die if she stops smoking. At worst, she and/or her baby could die from a smoking related cause if she carries on.

I developed an infection in my placenta while I was pregnant and the doctors were forced to make the decision to save my life knowing it would cost my daughter hers (she was born too prematurely to survive). Previously they had been doing everything they could to ensure I didn't go into early labour (I had lost my mucus plug, my cervix was opening and eventually my waters broke. An infection was almost certainly a given but they still tried so hard until I became seriously ill very quickly and the infection was confirmed.

Had it been possible to save her life knowing it might cost me mine then that would have been my choice, no doubt about it. But the infection would have killed us both before we reached viability so it was never an option to wait. I still tried to argue the case for waiting for viability anyway and my doctor told me they could have me declared mentally unfit to make my own decision and ask my DH to make it for me if I didn't agree to inducing labour immediately. They said the placenta would kill us both if it wasn't taken out soon.

I'm pro-choice, I would have said that I believe that until the baby is born the mother takes priority in a life or death situation...except in my own case when I would have given my life and the lives of everyone else in the room with us to save hers. There would have been no excuses and no justifications from me if we'd had even the slimmest chance of saving her life rather than risking it or ending it.

This isn't an immediate life or death situation for the mother, so comparing it to a genuine life or death situation requiring cancer treatment isn't really fair.

FlangelinaBallerina I hear what you're saying, I really do but here's the rub: no one in this day and age can possibly claim they didn't realise that smoking is bad for you. Not one single person alive right at this moment could get away with saying that. It's deeply ingrained in us, as a society, that smoking is extremely bad for you.

Not even for the unborn baby, at this point. Just you, the smoker.

So how can a reasonably sound person of reasonable intelligence, possibly not realise, give thought to, put two and effing two together and realise that if their GP tells them to carry on smoking, that it's better for them and their baby, there is at least some seriously mixed up messaging going on?

They don't simply because it suits them. They ignore, delude, deny. They try to delude and pull the wool over the eyes of everyone else and you know, I might have a modicum of respect for them if they did just say - I tried, I can't, I feel like fucking shit for it.

Betty yes I agree people do know smoking is bad for you. People usually also know that stress is harmful too, though. I'm guessing everyone would agree that both are bad for the health, and that this is widely known. So for the laymna, it's a question of which of the two unhealthy options is worse. That's obviously less straightforward than identifying that smoking is bad. It requires a certain amount of knowledge that people quite simply don't always have. And even if they do, they're still entitled to believe that the person who did 5 years at medical school is better qualified to make the call than they are.

Plus, you said 'of reasonable intelligence'. Obviously not everyone falls into that category. Some people aren't that bright, through no fault of their own. Some of them get pregnant.

"Smokers are more likely to experience a stillbirth

More likely than who though?"

More likely than similar women who don't smoke.

Obesity increases stillbirth rates as well. As does being older when you have your first baby. But you can't reduce your BMI overnight, or make yourself younger, whereas you can stop smoking.

I was told it was less harmful but only because added stress of that amoung other things was causing an underlying problem with my heart to play up (makes my BP and heartrate appear as if I am in shock) and I was only smoking a few at the time (just after I found out I was pg), I stopped anyway but I was told that in hospital.

It's sad, utterly depressing and unbelievable that some people still think there is a defense to smoking when pregnant. Saying it's a woman's choice/her body etc is crass. If you choose to carry on that pregnancy, you have a responsibility not to deliberately cause harm.

A foetus does have rights. To say otherwise is wrong.

What's the difference in puffing away at 38 weeks and holding the baby's mouth open after s/he is born and blowing smoke in?

Go on, defend maternal smoking. Defend it to the ends of the earth. It won't change the fact that it's a fucking hideous thing.

And moaning about it and slagging pregnant women off doesn't change it either

More help and support might

Agree Moominsarescary.

It is no ones place to judge others for the choices they make and I imagine getting slagged off and put down will just make the person feel worse and probably put down what motivation they may have had.

I worked in a drug an alcohol detox centre so worked with addiction in pregnancy. I would have got precisely nowhere if I had the attitude some people are showing on this thread.

Luckily most hcps know this and whilst it is their job to inform a patent of risks it is not their job to judge. Those who can be sympathetic and non judge mental, who are able to see if someone is struggling and can help their patient work towards cutting down or quitting in a way the women feels comfortable with will have far better outcomes.

hey my doctor told me that once you are pregnant,dont quit then. I cut down to like 3 a day with dd2 cos I knew it wasnt good for her but was scared to stop totally after the doctor told me that. I was surprised cos I was told to quit, and did, with my other 3 babies. I figured there must have been some new medical finding to promt him tell me this after the same guy told me to quit with the other 3