to think "no actually, the stress of stopping smoking won't be worse for your unborn baby than you smoking"

[UphillBothWays]

I'm fed up with hearing this as an excuse for continuing to smoke in pregnancy! I've heard people say this in real life, on TV, and now Stacey Solomon is claiming her doctor OK'd her smoking too.

Yes, quitting smoking is hard, but don't claim it's better for your baby to be exposed to carbon monoxide, cyanide and nicotine fgs.

I would have a lot more sympathy if they said "I know it's awful and I'm trying my hardest to stop but I'm struggling and have slipped up"

If a person suffers from mental illness, and uses smoking as a crutch as some people do. The same as some people self medicate with illegal drugs, taking it a way is not a good idea.

Of course being mentally unwell when pregnant can affect the baby. Most hcps will agree psychological, mental, emotional health is important to physical health

That's why they teach you about social models of health

quitting suddenly > causes huge mental stress > causes physical problems --> causes miscarriage/problems with the pregnany

No I'm sorry but it just doesn't work like that. Quitting smoking cold turkey, if you want to quit (and pregnancy makes a person want to, usually,) is extremely easy. How many women report that they quit instantly, when they may have tried and failed dozens of times when not pregnant? Smoking is a false crutch and as soon as you realise that not smoking is more desirable than smoking the stress just evaporates.

If you still see smoking as desirable and are constantly battling not to smoke then you may feel stressed. But it is emotional stress and really quite minor. Women give birth to healthy babies in warzones, in dire poverty, through abusive relationships, in situations that are genuinely stress inducing. The likelihood of miscarriage as a result of that stress may be slightly higher, but risk of miscarriage as a result of stopping smoking? What planet are you on?

Even if there was a risk of miscarriage from stopping smoking (which I do not accept) the risk of miscarriage from continuing to smoke is real, provable and unacceptably high. So it is a false choice to make.

Erik Why do you believe you can speak for everyone on this issue?

Stress can cause a miscarriage, that's a fact.

YOU can't judge how stressed situations make individual people, and YOU can't judge what is genuinely stressful for one person. I find it beyond bizarre that you can't accept that to some people, there may be a risk. I also find your denial of smoking cessation causing stress beyond bizarre too!

Surely it's better to work slowly toward quitting if you feel you can't cold turkey rather than not quitting at all?

People being able to have babies in warzones has naff all to do with anything. Can I find nothing in my life stressful because I am not doing it in a warzone? Exactly.

Any sort of mental stress can cause a relapse into mental illness, it doesn't take much to cause a relapse. Most anti psychotics or even anti depressants are not advised during pregnancy and as 1 in 4 people suffer from mental illness your talking about quite a few women, trying to remain well with the added problem of pregnancy hormones and sometimes coming of medication can be enough of a battle.

And of course being clinically depressed, psychotic or having to take high doses of meds can affect the baby

Yes, for some people there may be a risk. But for the vast majority, the benefits of stopping smoking outweigh any risks, not just pregnant women.

I don't see there's any argument against this to be honest

Pornissue... there are lots of children I feel sorry for; they very often are those of the people who chuck their judgements about like confetti when their own behaviour on various issues isn't what I'd do or countenance either. I was making a point. Free will and all that.

I really don't care whether you or anybody else agrees with me; I'm always going to take issue with the non-stop pitchforks just as they will always take issue with somebody expressing their disgust with them. Stalemate.

Stress can cause a miscarriage, that's a fact

No it isn't. Extreme levels of stress may be linked to miscarriage or stillbirth but the evidence is absolutely not certain. Normal, everyday stress is not linked to miscarriage whatsoever. It is irresponsible to suggest that the level of stress that most of us experience on a daily or weekly basis (which stopping smoking falls into) has anything to do with miscarriage.

Please stop stating that stress causes miscarriage. Even if it were an acknowledged truth, which it isn't, it does not mean the type of stress we are discussing on this thread.

Moomins - you are talking about women with severe and enduring mental health issues that need to be managed to ensure the safety of the baby. In those circumstances I think we can agree that the levels of 'stress' (that word is starting to lose all meaning) experienced would be outside of the normal range experienced by the average womam. What a woman in that situation decided to do WRT smoking, in consultation with her MH worker or HCPs is completely up to her, and an entirely separate issue to that being discussed on this thread - which is whether stopping smoking in the ordinary course of things can cause enough physical harm as to affect a foetus.

Well FWIW I agree with Lying

There seems to be an 'acceptable list' of people to judge on MN and smokers/pregnant smokers are fair game it would seem.

But as has been mentioned upthread, those doing the judging often get upset at being judged themselves for other reasons....even if those reasons put themselves and their babies at just as much risk as smokers.

I bloody L.O.V.E.D smoking. I smoked fags all and spliffs all night. I started at 14 because I really wanted to. None if my friends did so it wasn't peer pressure. I just always wanted to smoke and found it every bit as enjoyable as, well pretty much anything

I smoke, smoke, smoked. Loads. All the time.

I gave up the day I got a bfp (hadn't been actively trying to conceive, it was a bit if a shock). DP also gave up.

That was over three years ago. I still massively crave cigarettes. I've not had even one puff

Really if you want to give up, then you will

No one said in the ordinary course of things at all, time and time again people have said there is no reason a pg women should keep smoking and that stress doesn't cause problems with pregnancy. Didn't you say that any mw stating that quitting could be more harmful was talking bollocks?

Noone knows what problems stress may cause as it's a hard thing to measure

Also women in war torn country's could be at greater risk of mc than someone who doesn't live in a war zone for all you know

*No it isn't. Extreme levels of stress may be linked to miscarriage or stillbirth but the evidence is absolutely not certain. Normal, everyday stress is not linked to miscarriage whatsoever. It is irresponsible to suggest that the level of stress that most of us experience on a daily or weekly basis (which stopping smoking falls into) has anything to do with miscarriage.

Please stop stating that stress causes miscarriage. Even if it were an acknowledged truth, which it isn't, it does not mean the type of stress we are discussing on this thread.*

I have already stated my position on smoking in pregnancy; I am not a fan of it.

I am simply trying to get you to acknowledge facts, which you are ignoring in your judgemental crusade. You won't acknowledge everybody's situation is are different, that everybody copes with different scenarios in different ways, you've decided YOU know just how stressed smoking cessation would make anyone....it DOES mean the type of stress we are discussing on this thread, for certain people. You won't even acknowledge that someone reducing then quitting if they can't manage cold turkey is better than not quitting at all...in fact any reasonable point I make you ignore it and get hysterical again.

It is NOT irresponsible to suggest that smoking cessation could cause severe stress which could cause a miscarriage; so a better course of action could be to reduce and stop gradually. I'd say you were more the irresponsible one for refusing to acknowledge the possibility. At least my mind is open.

You do not have the right to tell me to shut up about anything because you disagree with it either.

It is NOT irresponsible to suggest that smoking cessation could cause severe stress which could cause a miscarriage

I disagree with you, you are stating something as if it is fact and it is not. I did not tell you to shut up, I asked you not to repeat a falsehood.

Anyway, we disagree fundamentally on this point and I can't see myself ever agreeing with you. I'm not sure what more there is to say.

Erik

We both agree that smoking during pregnancy isn't right, and the ideal is cessation. I really can't understand why you'll accept nothing but cold turkey. So what if it takes two weeks or three? As long as it happens that's the important part, and recognising the mother to be as a person rather than an incubator.

But lying if you don't like others judging then don't do it yourself. Let ye be a shining example, not hypocrite in that case.

I think judging people is healthy. It's how society moves on.

Oh and Im far too fat after having my baby 4 months ago but getting judged on it, whilst it is hurtful, it is useful , as I have now lost a stone and intend to keep going.

I needed a push by my doctor. Words Hurt if they have some truth in them.

I really can't understand why you'll accept nothing but cold turkey. So what if it takes two weeks or three?

I never said that!

My point is that stopping smoking, withdrawing from nicotine, is not physically stressful. It doesn't have physical side effects that could harm the baby. The word 'stress' is used in so many different contexts that this discussion becomes confused, but I am talking about the cobblers that 'stopping smoking is so stressful that it's better for the baby to carry on'. This is not true. There is, surely, no debate about this? (Serious MH issues notwithstanding)

If a woman stops smoking immediately or over weeks or months that is all up to her. As long as she stops eventuaslly she will be doing her baby and herself a favour. I don't really have a strong opinion about that and have not expressed one on this thread.

I take issue with the falsehood that stopping smoking is physically dangerous or damaging to the foetus. I don't agree with it, and I think it excuses a lot of pregnant women in their own minds into continuing to smoke.

Erik then you've been misreading my posts! I have not been arguing that a woman should continue to smoke throughout (which is what you seem to think? From your replies to me it's what I was getting ie I asked you if you agreed that gradual cessation was better than no cessation and you ignored me), my point has been that for some women cold turkey is too much and a gradual cessation may be better for mum and baby.

I do think the stress of cold turkey can be too much and I do think it can be damaging for the foetus which is a point we disagree on.

I gave up smoking when I was pregnant. My midwife told me it was ok if I wanted to have the odd fag here and now as it's less stress.. That was in 2011.

Each to their own. I would never, ever dare tell anyone what they can, or can't do with their bodies when they're expecting. It's no ones business.

musicismylife you really think there's a link between abortion and maternal smoking?

What??

In one case, you terminate a pregnancy.End of.

In the other case you choose to continue with a pregnancy but make a conscious decision to bombard the foetus with deadly chemicals that could reduce their quality of life/increase their risk of death.

How the actual fuck are they linked?

Link is

Women's body

She has the right to do what she wants with it, weather it be termination, or smoking whilst pregnant

And as someone else said a foetus has no rights (rightly or wrongly)

Eirikur - I am NOT saying withdrawal symtoms mean a pregnant woman shoudn't give up smoking for flip's sake! I think all pregnant women bloody well should give up smoking. I am saying - for the third time - that posters who keep saying there are no physical withdrawal symptoms are wrong. A hacking cough was the least of it - dh had flu like symptoms, in bed shaking like a leaf with a fever. And a banging headache for days afterwards.

This is my opinion - with a termination, that's the end of the life you have been carrying. Fine. No future ill effects on it.
With smoking, through your actions if you choose to smoke, you are choosing to adversely affect that life in the future.

There is a massive difference.

Any HCP that perpetuates the myth that continuing to smoke in pregnancy is better than stopping should be ashamed of themselves.

And do some smoking cessation training.

I have even met a GP who wouldn't prescribe NRT to a pregnant woman and seemed completely ignorant of the fact that it's safer to give a pregnant woman NRT than it is for her to smoke. So there ARE doctors and midwives out there giving shite advice.

There are also HCPs giving good advice and offering lots of support to those wishing to stop smoking but sadly many people just don't wish to hear it; smokers are very good at finding excuses to continue to smoke. Quitting is rarely successful unless the person REALLY wants to quit, not just trying to quit because they feel they ought to.

Oh jeez - I saw this thread and then saw something about a famous woman.

Isn't it her business?

I was a smoker and luckily gave up a tad before being pregnant and found it OK but then I'm not a famous person and don't have cameras trailing what I do (that must be so stressful).

Do you think that with all this publicity she'll find it easy to give up now?