to object to the t-shirt worn by shop assistant today...

[margoandjerry]

In the dry cleaners this morning. Perfectly pleasant young man serving - he was polite and everything. His t-shirt said "Doggy style. The bitches love me". Why is this ok? It isn't ok. I'm pissed off.

I have to say I'm really annoyed by people saying that those of us who find someone at work wearing this kind of sexist crap inappropriate must have no bigger worries or have had no big problems in our lives. You have no idea what goes on or what our bigger issues are. Trust me, I have some that are way bigger. However, I would really like my little girl to grow up in a world where people don't casually insult her or make her uncomfortable because she is female, particularly someone she might view as official. If that makes me a humourless harridian, then send me a t-shirt with that on and I'll wear it with pride.

I think it is inappropriate workwear.
There again I dislike slogan t-shirts and do make judgements about those who wear them, usually negative judgements.

Absolutely shocking Seeker but nothing whatsoever to do about this young mans t shirt at the dry cleaners.

I feel the level of debate has slipped somewhat when one side starts calling the other "humourless harridans"

It's not a debate when people are talking about censoring what is printed on T shirts, it's a complete farce.

Humourless because all the suggested anti-spotty-kid T Shirts didn't seem to grasp that a bit of wit was involved.

Harridans because we are 230 odd posts into grumpy frothing about what some spotty teenage kid in a dry cleaners wore, and bewailing Dire Consequences for young womanhood.

Just listen to you:

I would really like my little girl to grow up in a world where people don't casually insult her or make her uncomfortable because she is female, particularly someone she might view as official

What, the teenage kid in the local dry cleaners is an "official"? Over- egging, much?

If your teenage daughter is anything like mine she is way more streetwise than some gangly yoof in the local steamy, and would have him pegged in minutes. Of course, if mummy complained about his T shirt that would probably increase, not decrease his attractiveness.....

She's five, and she has spent half the life she can remember in a hospital so not so streetwise, no. I don't know at what age she'll grasp the lack of authority the person in a shop has, but I'm guessing her reading level will advance far enough to be able to read that first. Obviously one t-shirt is not going to have 'dire consequences' but it's a symptom of a disrespect for women that is all too common. When I was an older child, I would have felt very uncomfortable dealing with someone in a shop wearing something like that, and would have understood tge reference from playgriund talk all too well. As others have said, if this was a derogatory racial term, would you feel the same? Perhaps I'm a special case as I have already had to deal with DD wishing she wasn't a girl, so I'm extra keen to protect her from being made to feel that way again as long as possible.

The chap at my local chippy looks official and very scary does that count?

Waiting for the definition of official in relation to dry cleaning bell hop

FarloRigel: "I have to say I'm really annoyed by people saying that those of us who find someone at work wearing this kind of sexist crap inappropriate must have no bigger worries or have had no big problems in our lives. You have no idea what goes on or what our bigger issues are. Trust me, I have some that are way bigger. However, I would really like my little girl to grow up in a world where people don't casually insult her or make her uncomfortable because she is female, particularly someone she might view as official. If that makes me a humourless harridian, then send me a t-shirt with that on and I'll wear it with pride."

Spot on.

True, verity verbiage. But I find it shocking that plenty of people are piling on here to call those of us who care about how society perceives women humourless harridans and say they have more important things to think about have left that thread languishing, and presumably are too busy campaigning for world peace to write a letter.

All the people saying 'it's only a t-shirt' - would you be unbothered by someone wearing a t-shirt with a racial hate slogan? Or one saying something approving about paedophiles? Or one advocating euthanasing disabled children?

Whatmeworry Sun 26-Feb-12 20:47:13

"Teenage boys will always do things to shock and upset the fogeys, its what they do - and the fogeys will always be shocked and upset, it's what they do."

Perhaps somebody should suggest nicely to this teenage boy that he is not paid to shock and upset the customers?

Personally I would not continue to use a shop where I am seen as a target for puerile prococation of the fogeys: if I am not treated with the respect due to a customer, I will take my custom elsewhere. Teenage boys need to learn that unless they can behave like adults they cannot expect the privileges accorded to adults, such as paid work.

That's an interesting point. Would people be happy to let their teenage son out wearing this t shirt? Would they buy it for a teenager?

Not very professional - makes the business look less professional/good. Wouldn't get upset though, its their business, not mine.

redridingwolf my other half and I were talking about this last night, and he looked on the internet and found t-shirts saying

SLAVERY GETS SHIT DONE

and

I'M NOT A RACIST BECAUSE RACISM IS A CRIME AND CRIME IS FOR THOSE COLOURED FOLKS

farlo I want a humourless harridan t shirt too, if not finding these sorts of slogans witty makes me one. Perhaps we can bulk buy?

When it comes to people's actions, you need to have laws which protect against discrimination. But when it comes to people's opinions (displayed in their choice of t-shirt), then they should have the right to freedom of expression, even if what they are expressing is bloody awful.

Most people would actively choose not to cause offence or display prickish (I don't think that's a word, but it describes the t-shirt wearer quite well) opinions, so it will only ever be a very small minority who choose to do such things. But still, in a free society, it is someone's right to be a nasty prat.

I wouldn't buy it for my teenager, or let him own it, because he is still a child.

The other thing is, just because someone doesn't say something out loud, it doesn't mean they don't hold certain opinions. I would always rather know up front, who I'm talking to. these t-shirts serve a purpose in that sense.

What karma said

Well, yes, karma, I don't think anyone is suggesting that this man's t-shirt should be made illegal, or that he should be sent to prison for it!

Surely it's completely appropriate though to let him know that it is offensive? That doesn't even have to be done in an aggressive manner.

But if we're all so scared of other people's opinions that we won't tell them when they're offensive, then it's a constant downward slope.

There's a very interesting book written about how 'ordinary people' accepted the dreadful things done in Nazi Germany - and a prime factor seemed to be that people didn't feel able or that it was appropriate or that it was their role to speak out against even the minor things. Not a good cultural set up.

And tangled - nasty t-shirts, indeed!

Tbh, I think if you are wearing a t-shirt like the ones described by tangled, then you already know it's offensive and just don't give a shit.

While I would reserve a person's right to wear it, I would also support the right of anyone else to tell the wearer that they are a fuckwit.

I think I would be tempted to give a broad wink and growl "Woof" as I picked up my dry cleaning. That would scare him

Thank goodness for Top Gear. Thank goodness for South Park. Thank goodness for all those comedians who are challenging utterly dry pc guidelines because 'just in case it offends' stuff is getting banned. There is a subtule line but clear line between deliberately going out of way to incite and provoke hatred. Then there's just ignorant twats who wear childish t-shirts, often because they think it makes them look funny and cool when it does entirely the opposite.

Theres 'fighting a cause'. Then theres pushing that to the letter of the law and ending up in a situation where you have Orwellian Thought Police.

This thread has just jumped the shark. Why? Cos any thread on censorship etc that ends up with the Nazi line thrown in has reached the point of no return.

Freedom of expression isn't about what you like and what you are comfortable with. I can't frikkin' stand SouthPark. I find it utterly offensive. But as friends point out, its equal opps offensive and shows bigots up and also people who go to extremes to crack down on that too. (And it had a pop Scientology which is always a good thing).

I don't want to live somewhere where you can't fight 'isms' like Nazi Germany. But I also don't want to live in NinetyEightyFuckingFour either.

You have to find a happy medium in the middle. Really don't see how getting uptight about pathetic tshirts which are not out and out deliberate attacks on people really falls into anything but the Orwellian Category.

The kid is an idiot. Nothing more. Nothing less. He's wearing it cos he thinks its funny. Not because he wants to mortally offend women or suggest they are somehow beneath him. I wouldn't be surprised if he can't even get laid and so is using bravado to negate his insecurity about his inability to speak to the opposite sex. Its unprofessional. But would you really feel better, if this kid ended up getting the sack over his flaming tshirt as he's not bright enough to realise that maybe its not really appropriate?

Honestly. Stuff like this makes people want to wear t-shirts like the one in the OP. Just to wind up people like some of the posters on here. In EXACTLY the same way that South Park (and Top Gear) go out of their way to mock and draw complaints about people being over sensitive.

The fact that people don't get that idea, and that their approach actually ends up having the exact opposite effect to the one they want to achieve makes me despair as it really shows they don't understand half the problem in the first place.

rarara fight the power
by wearing sexist t-shirts on the job in order to offend your costumers
that's the way to go!

what soni said

And all the girlies are so keen to show that they aren't dried up humourless harridans that they giggle and say"Ooh, you are naughty but I like you!" Pah.

No I happen to think that the way to change something isn't to tell them how to think.

This kid gets told his tshirt is appropriate. Do you really think thats going to stop him wearing or buying tshirts like this?

Cos I don't. He'll feel a martyr and think he's been unfairly and harshly treated as he didn't mean to offend anyone and that its an over the top reaction to what he thinks is a funny t-shirt.

Nope instead he and his mates will then go and buy more tshirts, which are worse TO OFFEND. Its called rebellion.

You can not TELL someone how to think and force it down their throat. Which is in essence what people here seem to want to do.

You can only make them change their mind by getting them to question it themselves. And you aren't going to get that to happen by attacking the tshirt. You have to get them to question things more subtly and by getting them to agree to it by consensus rather than enforcement. Provoking a hostile and negative reaction against your cause, isn't the way to achieve that.

But meh.

I'm just an 'apologist' for understanding democratic opinion is decided by consensus politics which take a long period of time to enact. Go figure.

inappropriate*

We need legislation and all t shirts should be vetted by big brother.

Oh...and what cherry said.