Pregnant Foreign Students

[Jibby123]

I started this discussion in another thread. Since it was getting heated I decided to move it here. The synopsis is "Can anyone tell me why foreign students who get pregnant are being treated like criminals within the immigration.

The immigration system allows for the withdrawal of visa from any student who misses 10 classes after having a baby. This is scandalous.

Are foreign mothers inferior to other mothers or does pregnancy affect them in a different way?

Some argue that a visa is given for studies and not to have babies but we know that pregnancies do not necessarily as planned especially when students are allowed to bring their spouses along with them as dependants.

Just because you are a foreign student is not a ban on sex.

This situation puts a lot of pressure on pregnant foreign students and is causing them to go through harrowing experiences while pregnant as they worry about their visa status and are forced to attend studies even when they are not fit to. The pregnancy alone is hard enough.

Pregnancy is not a disease, not a crime and certainly not an immigration offence.

WE need to raise this issue to the government so that they can treat pregnant foreign students in a more humane manner."

Here is a link to the original thread and the points that were made.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/pregnancy/1413246-Pregnant-Foreign-Students?pg=1

They do apply it across the board at my school, and most of the schools I know of. They do at my university. They will happily suspend you/expel you if you never turn up.

The reason for the rules is not, I'd imagine, the disruption to the school, however. The reason for the rules is that there is a cap on the number of students. The cap is there so we don't get millions of people turning up. It is not fair if you grant a place (of which there are limited numbers) to someone who isn't actually using their place to study.

There aren't many countries where English is the native language. People need and want to learn English at the moment, so for the time being, I really think the UKBA can set whatever rules they want and people will still want to come. That's the sad fact of it.

Do all foreign students pay the same though, or do EU members pay a different rate to those outside the EU? My friend is Polish and she said she did her masters degree here 'for free' I am not sure whether the Polish government paid for her to study here or whether we did. I have always been a bit confused by it tbh!

There aren't many countries where English is the native language, but there are an increasing number of universities elsewhere in the world that are choosing to teach their courses in English, just to attract foreign students. The smart UK universities are cottoning on to the advantages of entering partnerships with these universities so that they continue to tap into the financial sources of foreign students.

EU students pay the same as British students, due to reciprocal agreements. Non-EU students pay much more

I'm speaking primarily about English language schools, I don't know much about universities to be honest.

Non-EU students pay more Agincourt.

I think English being the native language is a red herring.

The UK is unusual in that we don't teach languages well. Much of Europe does. I have fellow students whose first languages are Dutch, German, Russian, Italian, Spanish, Romanian - all are fluent in English and it's not very unusual in their countries to come and study in another country since it's assumed one will learn the language.

In order to study for a degree in the UK, you usually have to be either fluent already, or so very good at a subject that doesn't require perfect English (eg. Maths) that the university is glad to have your talent anyway.

Thanks, I have always been a bit confused about it tbh!

Oops, sorry yellow, I cross-posted.

I understand now.

There is evidence that we're already losing market share, yellow. And the US is marketing much more aggressively now than it used to. It will be interesting to see how the removal of the post-study work route will impact on numbers. I believe Australia did this briefly, and numbers nosedived, so they had to reinstate it.

I don't think there is a cap yet for international students? If there is, it's quite recent. I thought they only introduced it for certain work visas.

LOL at 'shouldn't be picking up blokes' btw. Thank god I did, bagged a lovely DH and DS out of it

I think a lot of the rules are stupid like I said. The one about students not being allowed to work is one (all of mine just work illegally instead so they're not even paying tax) and having to have thousands in your bank account is another.

Coming here to study means you should be attending classes though.

yellow, I too disagree with the ban on working for some categories of students, but if your students are working illegally, they are in breach of the terms of their immigration permission, and as a tier 4 sponsor, you have a legal duty to report this to the UKBA. Though I realise you might be out of a job if you did this.

I think the rules on having sufficient funds are actually quite reasonable, albeit somewhat arbitrary. But we shouldn't grant visas to students who can't demonstrate that they are able to support themselves.

I am not a Tier 4 Sponsor. I am a teacher. My first duty is to my students. Teaching English is a very personal thing and I get to know a lot about them. I am hardly going to dob them in. If they go and tell my manager they're working I'd imagine she would tell the UKBA, but I would never tell on them.

The rules on sufficient funds are ridiculous. People just borrow money from other people and then give it back once they have the visa. There is no way that you could ever stop this.

Sorry, didn't mean you personally, but rather your organisation. I appreciate that you build a relationship with students and would not want to report them. But technically, that's what the UKBA expects you to do. Perhaps they do not realise that few academics & teachers will be eager to play big brother.

I know that some people will provide fraudulent information about their finances - 'twas ever thus. However, I still think it's reasonable to apply some kind of test regarding financial circumstances. I get more irritated about the over-zealous application of the 28-day rule on bank statements.

I'm sure my organisation would report them, but it's hardly likely that the students are going to tell my manager they're working.

It's not some people providing fraudulent information - it's the majority of the students in every school I've ever worked in. Proving that it is therefore pointless to even bother with the checks.

I worked in a restaurant illegally while studying in the US. The tips were fabulous. $100 a night was big bucks for a poor student. Ah, those were the days

I think financial checks are okay but they are set too high. I lived on half of what they said I would need, and that was in London.

It's not just pregnancy - a student I taught had her visa cancelled when she got cancer.

But sashh, horrible as it may be to have cancer, it doesn't mean you then get indefinite leave to stay in this country. People can have cancer for years and years and years.

Stuff like this probably needs to be taken on a case by case basis, but in any case, surely a person with cancer is going to be better off in their home country surrounded by family and friends.

If I went to, say, the USA on a tourist visa or a student visa and got pregnant or got cancer, I wouldn't expect to stay there. It wouldn't be very nice to have to go home, but until all countries are equal, there will be border controls.

I totally agree with your point Jibbly123. I am going through the same issue. Are you deferring your semester? My college London School of Commerce said they allow 2 weeks of maternity leave be it before or after the birth of the baby. How ridiculous! I'll be forced to join classes even when I will not be fit to. This is such a mental stress during pregnancy. They simply cant do it to a pregnant woman.
Are you taking any step against your uni/college??

I totally agree with your point Jibbly123. I am going through the same issue. Are you deferring your semester? My college London School of Commerce said they allow 2 weeks of maternity leave be it before or after the birth of the baby. How ridiculous! I'll be forced to join classes even when I will not be fit to. This is such a mental stress during pregnancy. They simply cant do it to a pregnant woman.
Are you taking any step against your uni/college?? Or what solution have you come to if you have actually.

Er ... it was two years ago, love. If the OP had been pregnant I sure hope she isn't still!

two words BIRTH CONTROL