Pregnant Foreign Students

[Jibby123]

I started this discussion in another thread. Since it was getting heated I decided to move it here. The synopsis is "Can anyone tell me why foreign students who get pregnant are being treated like criminals within the immigration.

The immigration system allows for the withdrawal of visa from any student who misses 10 classes after having a baby. This is scandalous.

Are foreign mothers inferior to other mothers or does pregnancy affect them in a different way?

Some argue that a visa is given for studies and not to have babies but we know that pregnancies do not necessarily as planned especially when students are allowed to bring their spouses along with them as dependants.

Just because you are a foreign student is not a ban on sex.

This situation puts a lot of pressure on pregnant foreign students and is causing them to go through harrowing experiences while pregnant as they worry about their visa status and are forced to attend studies even when they are not fit to. The pregnancy alone is hard enough.

Pregnancy is not a disease, not a crime and certainly not an immigration offence.

WE need to raise this issue to the government so that they can treat pregnant foreign students in a more humane manner."

Here is a link to the original thread and the points that were made.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/pregnancy/1413246-Pregnant-Foreign-Students?pg=1

Inhmane really oh dear , there is more inhumane things that go on than revoking a study visa ,

If you are on a student visa you aren't an immigrant though. You are a guest, as a student. And its kind of tough luck if you get pregnant and can't complete your studies, you might lose your visa. I'd imagine its the same everywhere.

flatbread - I agree the 'favour' attitude is a bit naive (given the fees overseas students pay). But I'm pretty sure the same system that screws over overseas students who're pregnant does exactly that to home students. If we wanted to change things, I think it'd have to be the whole attitude towards pregnant students.

peppy - and yet it seems you imagine wrong.

Also, if you look at Silicon valley, a large number of entrepreneurs came as foreign students. They have built some of the largest companies and are hiring and contributing to the economy.

Why would any country make it difficult for foreign fee paying students? Why does the government care if they take 4 years or 6 years to finish their studies? They are not entitled to benefits and the government can stipulate that students come in with private health insurance.

This ruling is nuts, IMHO.

The whole healthcare usage thing is a red herring. It doesn't matter. A lot of countries have reciprocal arrangements.

Are healthcare costs for having baby, usually 5k for end to end care such a big deal as compared to the £60,000 plus that a foreign student contributes?

Really? Care to elaborate? I'm perfectly happy to be wrong, but you're not actually giving a lot of information there.

I suppose it depends on what type of visa. The korean teen on a learning english student visa is probably a different kettle of fish than the phd student with a scholarship. But either way, visa's all over the world of all different types come with rules, some of them very strict. You sign up to them willingly, so its a bit late to complain that its not fair afterwards.

I became pg whilst at university - I was doing my PGCE and had to spend X number of weeks in school, teaching, or I would have failed my course and would have had to re do my teaching experience. I was as sick as a dog for those early months of my pg, but I just had to get on with it. It was my choice to have a baby. It's not the job of the university to make special allowances for pregnant students and if the student cannot fulfil the terms of their visa then send them home. I think the two week rule is sensible, because if you miss any more than that, it is difficult to catch up.

If you have had a straightforward birth, there is no reason why you cannot sit in lectures two weeks post birth.

I think that every person from a foreign country coming here, should have full personal medical insurance. It is not this country's responsibility to pay for foreign visitors to have babies etc.

Well, it's further up the thread, is all ...

I think it is perfectly ok consider (all of us) whether this system is fair. Personally, I don't think the visa is the main issue, I think the main issue is UK universities being bad at accommodating women with children and pregnant women. There is nothing wrong with having this discussion and IMO it's separate from individual cases (the OP isn't AFAIK asking us what she should do if she were pregnant).

'It's not the job of the university to make special allowances for pregnant students'

Why not, though?

Maybe it should be.

I don't see why they should, really, and I've been a pregnant student. You sign up to do a course, there are minimum requirements of that course. If you choose to do something, like have a baby (or sail around the world, or anything else), that means you can't or don't want to meet your requirements, how is that anyone elses problem but yours?

Well, at some point in their lives, some women are going to have babies. If you think universities shouldn't have to make allowances, where do you draw the line? Is it unfair to get maternity leave from a job, too? I have been studying more or less since I was 18 and I am 27 now. If I had a baby now, whether I was a UK student or not, my university would give me maternity leave, like anyone else. My course would be made to fit. It would have been harder to make my undergrad course fit.

I don't see why they shouldn't make allowances for pregnancy, just as a job does. Or else, when do you want women to have babies?

FloggingMolly this is bollocks and tt's best not to post crap like this unless youre absolutely sure of your ground... Because if the babies are born in Britain, they are presumably entitled to a British passport; and the mum would then be entitled to stay until the child is 18. Some people are obviously not above exploiting this loophole in the immigration laws for their own purposes.

From the Home Office website:

Birth in the UK does not automatically make a baby a British citizen. The baby needs to have a parent with British citizenship or settled status in the UK in order to be born British.

If your baby is not a British citizen, it is quite lawful for him or her to remain in the UK without making an immigration application. The baby will need immigration permission to re-enter the UK after any travel abroad and for babies born to Tier 4 students, there are very limited instances when the baby can apply for immigration permission as your dependant.

Post grad is more flexible, so perhaps easier to make allowances. But seriously, its not up to everyone else to accomodate everyones life choices at all times. You have to take responsibility for your own life and your own decisions.

My college said I could take a year off without penalty, I chose instead to bring a 3 day old baby to a lecture! And carry on with the year in full. My life, my choice. If they can accomodate, if they want to, fine, but I don't see why they should, in particular.

... nothing like a bit of misinformation to support your prejudice though, is there?

Jericho: Or else, when do you want women to have babies?

Well obviously, if they're forrin they shouldn't have babies at all...

Could you stop saying 'you', Peppy? This is not about me, or AFAIK about the OP.

It's nothing to do with 'choices'. Someone allowed you to bring your baby to lectures and made it possible for you to study with a baby. Not everyone is as fortunate as you in the allowances that are made for them.

Do you not think that's a bit unfair?

Has anyone yet made the point that pregnant Chinese postgrads are often forced to have abortions?

A lecturer allowed a baby to be taken into a lecture hall? I've heard it all now.

you. The general you, as in you all, ie anyone that is not me.

It is about choices. That lecturer didn't mind me bringing the baby, but the next one did, so my DP sat outside with him while I went in. It was my choice to have a baby while studying though, so it was up to me to make it work, or take the consequences of it not working.

I don't see what is unfair about an element of personal responsibility. Is that such an unpopular idea?

But how could you possibly have continued to study had you been kicked out?

Someone allowed you to stay as a student. That was an allowance made for you. Not everyone is so lucky.

I think it is absurd universities don't feel responsibility to make the same allowances that were made for you on a more regular basis. But it is really shocking to me that you defend what happened to you as purely 'personal responsibility' when in fact clearly the university also adapted to you, and yet you think the idea of anyone else getting such allowances made is unfair.

A baby burbling away distracts me in a restaurant. Let alone a fucking lecture theatre. Didn't you think about your fellow students.

In answer to the question when do you want women to have babies?, surely the answer to that is when they are in a position to. That's not generally while studying on a foreign visa.

Most people plan their families - there are thousands of women who'd love to have a baby, but can't because they cannot afford child care, or to give up their jobs etc. We can't all just have babies whenever we want and expect everyone else to accommodate it. Of course, accidents happen, but you just have to get on with it or accept a break in your studies.

Do people here realise that international students contribute more than £8 billion pounds to the UK economy every year?

Yes it's a massive privilege to get a student visa but please do not forget that we contribute a lot in return.

As for inhumane, yes I think it's inhumane to deport a pregnant woman back to her home country -- even a developed country. If I had been sent back to the USA, I would have had no job (good luck finding a job while pregnant!), no place to live (ditto, with no job), no health insurance and unable to get any while pregnant so no health care, oh and having to be a single mum because my partner might not be able to get a visa.

OR you could just let me stay in the UK and have a reasonable, short time to recover from childbirth, and then resume my studies and continue paying over £10K a year in fees.