Pregnant Foreign Students

[Jibby123]

I started this discussion in another thread. Since it was getting heated I decided to move it here. The synopsis is "Can anyone tell me why foreign students who get pregnant are being treated like criminals within the immigration.

The immigration system allows for the withdrawal of visa from any student who misses 10 classes after having a baby. This is scandalous.

Are foreign mothers inferior to other mothers or does pregnancy affect them in a different way?

Some argue that a visa is given for studies and not to have babies but we know that pregnancies do not necessarily as planned especially when students are allowed to bring their spouses along with them as dependants.

Just because you are a foreign student is not a ban on sex.

This situation puts a lot of pressure on pregnant foreign students and is causing them to go through harrowing experiences while pregnant as they worry about their visa status and are forced to attend studies even when they are not fit to. The pregnancy alone is hard enough.

Pregnancy is not a disease, not a crime and certainly not an immigration offence.

WE need to raise this issue to the government so that they can treat pregnant foreign students in a more humane manner."

Here is a link to the original thread and the points that were made.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/pregnancy/1413246-Pregnant-Foreign-Students?pg=1

But stranded isn't your dd almost 2? Are you really aloowed to take her to lectures? I had dd when at uni and she was in the university nursery full time. I know my university has a very good rep for looking after their student parents too, I know people who have taken tiny, sleeping or breastfeeding babies into seminars for example, at the tutors discretion. But as a fellow student, rather than a mother, I'd have been hugely at having a toddler present in lectures. Surely that's massively disruptive to everyone else there?

Babies and children are not allowed in to lecture theatres at the University I work in.

Why can't a student have a baby, take three months off, living here at her own expense, and then resume her studies. Why does she have to go back to her home country and reapply with hefty fees?

Not disagreeing with you there, flat, yes.

I bet they do though, Flatbread, most of them. Why would a university turn down all the lovely cash?

God my DS went to the university nursery. I never once expected special treatment because I had a child. Never requested an extension, even when he had chicken pox, never took semesters off, did regularly get called out of lectures to pick him up from nursery following accidents/bumps to the head, never expected to take him into lectures... etc...

I didn't ever understand why I got invited to the pub by lecturers, never had to buy my own drinks and got a huge amount of respect for getting a first.

I'm beginning to see why now!!!

Flat possibly because not all of them would return (or at least that would be the fear/assumption) and then how long to you give them? Who chases them up? When does the student visa get revoked?

I think it is wrong on lots of levels. Foreign women who have babies in this country should have the same rights as local women. Baby may have a British father so why should woman be thrown out of country. Most foreign students pay extortionate fees to study here so whether they miss course or not it has still been paid for.

But Peppy, that's the whole point. Some universities feel that they have to turn down all that lovely cash because that's their interpretation of the immigration legislation.

In reality, I think the actual numbers are very small. Most universities take a sensible approach to their obligations as a sponsor, and as Jericho has said, they do actually care about fairness and student welfare. International students are undoubtedly a big earner for them, but that's not to say that their welfare isn't carefully considered.

But there are a small number of women who will lose out, and more who will be anxious because of the lack of clear provision for maternity within the system, and the inevitable uncertainty that this creates. As Jericho has said, it isn't always possible for students to tell in advance how the various institutions may treat them if things don't go to plan.

I'm not at all arguing that the rules should be fair and clear to all. I was merely highlighting the role of personal choice and planning, which is far easier when the rules are clear and fair to all.

*arguing with. Ah, you know what I mean!

I'd just like to re-stress that taking away a pregnant woman's visa could separate the child from their father forever, if he cannot get a visa to the woman's home country.

I'm 28 weeks pregnant so my opinion might be softened by baby brain, but if a foreign student is paying up to £50k to take a degree as mentioned upthread and has to support herself while she's in Britain, then what's wrong with maybe extending her visa if necessary so she can have the baby, get herself as much back to normal as possible and complete her degree? There never is a right time to have a baby and sometimes things just ... well, happen!
[prepares for a flaming emoticon]

they could get married, dreamingbohemian?

also, not everyone has the right to free healthcare on the NHS, non-eu nationals for instance.

Thing is, you might not like the rules, but there are rules. For example, say you get a one year visa for australia, go over there and get pregnant. The Australian government would have no problem kicking you out at the end of your visa, pregnant, new baby, whatever. There are rules. Everyone has to play by the rules, don't sign up to the game in the first place, or try and change the rules. Thats just real life.

Yes except the UK is also tightening the rules for marriage visas so that you have to earn a certain amount of money, so that route is not a given either.

I understand there are rules but there is nothing wrong with challenging them if there is not a really compelling reason for them. If I'm allowed maternity leave on an EU visa, I don't see why that same privilege can't be extended to non-EU students. It can't that be that many cases in a year. The government is just going after them to distract from the fact they are never going to hit their migration targets as long as they can't do anything about EU migration.

REally? Bugger.

Again, I'm not arguing against you. But the fact that it is likely a small number makes it not worth anyones while looking at it, I'd guess?
Plus you can imagine the DM headline "new rules allow hordes of forrin students to stay as long as they get knocked up: drain on nhs and society" etc etc.

And also that the one kind of migration that the government should encourage, are students. There are studies which show that a lot of the tech boom in the US is around universities, and Chinese, Indian, Brazilian students using their experiences and networks along with their America colleagues to create new businesses

Why would a country say no to getting an educated workforce where the students are actually paying for themselves and another country funded their primary/secondary education? It doesn't make economic sense. These students are more likely to create jobs than live off the system.

I see the same point has already been made, but it's important enough to be made again: a friend who is a lecturer ar a Russell Group university tells me that at least several years ago the only profitable activity of his institution was teaching foreign students, which subsidises all their other, loss-making activities (research, teaching UK students etc).

Their financial department is apparently terrified of what an immigration crackdown could mean for their financial viability.

So, do British students really get a sort of 'maternity leave' of 3-6 months as mentioned upthread? Is there SMP in these circumstances? Or just time away from studies?

Do you know that a British born woman is expected to be back in the workplace, unless signed off for health hreasons, within a few weeks (2 or 4 iirc) of birth? "Fit for work" I think I was told. Except when they have Maternity leave through employment or SMP, of course.

Oh yes, and that's what I'm saying: these types of rules are not really addressing the real problem, they just allow for nice DM headlines.

I've been dealing with immigration procedures constantly for almost 7 years now. I feel very lucky and grateful to be an immigrant but I also think the system is very flawed. Dodgy people will always find a way around it, meanwhile law-abiding students and families are put through the wringer.

I think the government should go after dodgy schools and the people who employ illegal migrants, not individuals who are just trying to study or work and contribute to society.

Wellies, at my uni, all students unless on a student visa can take 6 months maternity leave, with a possible extension of another 6 months.

For my department at least, male postgrad students can also take 6 months leave.

Depending on whether they have been working as well, women may be eligible for Maternity Allowance (from the state).

I've never heard of this fit for work thing. Expected back by who? No one forces anyone to work.

What worries me, and not sure whether it's been said, is that being on the defensive must really affect the woman's ability to decide the best course of action if she falls pregnant unexpectedly. Some women might feel their only recourse is an abortion which they might not otherwise want, or perhaps returning home pregnant and interrupting their studies could put them in a very bad situation - financially, socially, physically. And what's the likelihood of them being able to return with child in tow to finish off their studies? It's incredibly expensive to be a foreign student, not all foreign students are lucky enough to have those resources.

I really hate this attitude which surfaces when the word 'immigrant' is mentioned. Some people could easily interchange it for 'pest' or 'leech' in the way they speak. Immigrants aren't all sponging off of welfare. Many bring expertise and languages and richness of culture. Many are escaping violence and circumstances we ourselves wouldn't enter into. It just so happens to be their nationality so they have to suffer for it? Immigrants, it seems, don't come under the old 'treat others how you'd like to be treated' umbrella.

What happened to thinking of humanity? Global citizenship? Empathy?