to think that motorbike racer who died racing was unfair on his DCs?

[TheEpilator]

Watched a film with DH the other night about the Isle of Man TT motorbike race and couldn't believe the ludicrous risks the racers took to partake in this event, during which it seems several people die each year.

Some of them (including one of the racers who died) had young DCs and I said that their fun shouldn't be at the expense of their families' happiness.

DH thinks I am unreasonable and used the old line "he could get hit by a bus tomorrow, at least he died doing what he loved". I think the guy who died (and anyone taking part in such dangerous pursuits for fun) was being quite selfish to deprive his DCs of their dad just so that he could have the thrill of the race. DH asked me to canvas your opinions.

Whose side are you on - mine or his?!...

OP We'll find you a good vantage point. The church at Braddan Bridge lets you sit on a pew in the churchyard behind a wall for about three shillings and sixpence, and sells Bovril.

My mother always chose her career over me, in spite of how it affected me, and I'm not very grateful to her. But she's a shit mum anyway in spite of her career so I suppose that's neither here not there.

here nor there

mmmm Bovril!

Maybe that's why we're in the minority then Cailin, we're feeling the pain of the child rather than the freedom of the parent. Perhaps we should both take up white water rafting or something, let our hair down a bit!

Thank you for your comments regarding my brother - yes he was ace and I miss the daft bugger like crazy!

Yes linerunner, come over and see it in person - it's amazing!

MaryZ I see your point, but it is honestly a massive adrenaline rush to each from so close And there are specific areas that the public are restricted from as being too dangerous. But sitting on most banks - yes, with our miniature - are safe as it would take a seriously freak accident for something to occur there.

I urge any mnetter to come and see for yourself! Fun for all the family! I'll show you around

I made the conscious decision not to ride anymore when I found out I was pregnant over Xmas. I agree with both points of view. My own feelings is yes your life goes on but it is high risk. I have lost friends on bikes no matter how careful a rider. I don't need to have a bike. I have a car. Yes I love it but do I really need to risk something happening to me when I have someone else to consider ? My answer is no. The risks outweigh the good for now - but I can't see my not getting on a bike for 18 years at the same time

Oh god no Epilator, I'm a walking disaster, I would manage to somehow catch fire in a white water raft

I agree with you though about perhaps seeing it too much from the child's point of view - perhaps we should think of ourselves a bit more?

I'm an old hand, Floydie, it's the OP who might like to try it out for the first time! (Do you really have garden for camping??)

It was horrible that year that so many German visitors were killed, though. Sent a ripple.

I was very against Phil Read's decision not to race the TT back in the day; but now that I am older (and have DCs), I understand it - especially given the discordance between the nature of the course and the power of the modern bikes. Like you say, it's a the rider's decision.

Doh linerunner, I meant theepliator!

Well, not really got much of a garden this year to be honest

There is always Bushys Beer Tent forest ups though...!

Another Isle of Man resident here, I think Floydie pretty much covered everything I was going to say about the safety measures taken for both riders and spectators.

Well said Floydie. I watched TT3D on Blueray. The stand out parts were Bridget Dobbs talking about Dobsy, thanking him for giving her the experience of the TT, and the extended interview where she spoke about him, their daughters and his death. Guy Martin crashing at the same corner, and causing the senior to be stopped for only the 2nd time ever, and Connor Cummin's crash (seeing him bounce over a stone wall). Well, they're not the only stand out bits. Hutch of course. Guy explaining why they do it, Bridget explaining why Dobsy did it, it boils down to they know what is likely going to be the outcome if they make a mistake. Oh yes, Jenny Tindall averaging 119MPH after her 2nd year there; according to Milky Quayle it takes 3 years to learn the circuit, so this year she could do 125MPH. I hope so, she has the talent.

So in summary, YABU. They do it because they know it can kill them. Life is so sanitised nowadays, this gives a real adrenaline rush. Plus this film made my DD want to go, so next year, 2013, we're going. She'll be 18, so she can buy me a pint.

Yabu I'm afraid. I ride horses which whilst slower than bikes, are considerably more unpredictable and can easily kill you without you even getting on the bloody things. I do minimise risks since having kids, eg I no longer ride other people's horses unless I know the horse very well, and I only rode my own while pregnant who had the nickname dobbin because he was so bombproof people used to joke that he was a wooden horse not a real one.
But I can't imagine never riding again no matter how much I love my kids. Being with horses and riding them is a huge huge part of who I am, I would rather die at 40 having ridden all my life than die at 80 never having ridden a horse. I did give up at one point after Dcs were born, but I was so lost and utterly bloody miserable without my horse my oh practically begged me to start again.

The thing about soldiers' children being able to console themselves with the thought that their parent died a hero doing vital work will only work if the children grow up to believe that that particular war (rather than war in general) was necessary and useful. Which is by no means guaranteed.

I'd do anything for my boys. I know most mothers would say the same. But I also know that the one thing they'd want and need above anything else I could give them is me here, with them. So I reckon the least I can do is take whatever reasonable steps i can to make sure that happens.

Roger, I think that sums up what I feel though, so I'm no more unreasonable than you are. Although racing in general is pretty risky with accidents/injuries aplenty, the TT specifically is the equivalent of you getting on an unknown horse and crossing your fingers, which you've said you wouldn't do since having DCs.

While you still enjoy your passion, you do it with some regard to your responsibilities as a parent, which is a good balance.

I agree with you too Cory, not all wars are just, but by being in the forces and agreeing to follow the orders they're given, servicemen and women are brave and heroic. You may not agree with the politics behind the war but anyone who gives their life or their health to serve their country can't be condemned.

Flowery, I've been thinking about working longer hours to give me more fulfillment in my life. I asked my DCs the other day if they would rather I was happy and they didn't see as much of me, or would they rather I wasn't as happy but was always here when they got home from school. Guess which they chose? The latter of course, little buggers. I think there's a balance to find there too.

A balance, absolutely. I work pretty hard myself so certainly wouldn't say working at all or working long hours was wrong or anything like that. I'm also very much all about respecting people's choices in general. But this one is where my tolerance vanishes, for obvious personal reasons.

Not everyone can tuck their children up in bed every night, or pick them up from school. But taking reasonable steps to ensure you see your children grow up is a choice most people do have, in this country at least. I think taking unnecessary risks with ones life is a luxury and some luxuries need to be given up when children come along.

I haven't read this whole thread yet (although I intend to do so tomorrow) but I really wanted to post, and have changed from my usual username as I don't want to out myself.

I have attended the funeral of a relative who was a road racer, who died at a very young age. I saw his fellow racers carry his coffin, and they were devastated at what happened. These were big names in the sport. Anyway, off the top of my head, every single one of those men is now dead, killed in the same way. I don't think any of them made it much past the age of 30, and some had young children.

But the thing is, it was one of the things they lived for. They knew the risks, but no one ever thinks it will happen to them. Their wives knew this before they married them, they knew this before they had children with them. Without the racing in their life, they wouldn't have been the men that their wives fell in love with. So it goes round in circles......

To say he was unfair on his DC, he didn't set out to race that day and think 'hey, I think I'll get killed?'. No one ever thinks it will happen to them.

You could just as easily apply the same logic to servicemen, saying that they know they could get killed in the line of duty, so they should leave the army before they have children. Because its unfair to their DC too, when they could just take a desk job at home.

I suppose the bottom line is, life isn't fair, so fairness doesn't really come into it. It is however tragic at times.

Thanks oneoff. That probably sums it all up pretty well. I suppose I've been thinking that servicemen are different, but their career is still a choice in the same way that a dangerous hobby is a choice.

Saying that I don't think I could marry (& have children with) a serviceman any more than I could marry a racer - you have to have a very special outlook on life to be able to accept those increased risks for someone you love and want to spend the rest of your life with, and its obvious that I don't have it!

I agree with you Epilator (again!), I couldn't marry someone in the forces. I have great admiration for people who can bear to have their partners living so far away in such difficult circumstances - I just don't think I could handle it.

"you could get run over by a bus, who knows! "

That is a ridiculous argument. By taking part in dangerous sports you are deliberately putting your life at risk. The chances of dying or sustaining a serious injury from motorbike racing are far higher than being run over by a bus. Why do some people find that is so difficult to understand?

bunbaker how much higher is the risk, do you know - or are you basing your statement on perception?

Splinter on my bum!

Well roughly one rider gets killed for every week of TT. I don't know the stats on bus deaths but I suspect it's not that high for a much larger group.

For 2004, there were 121 accidents involving buses and causing a death. That doesn't quite mean that 121 people were killed by being hit by a bus as it would include any accident involving a bus where any number of people died (there's a table showing that 3 bus drivers and 17 bus passengers were killed).

The idea that you shouldn't do anything dangerous for fun once you have children is just another aspect of the ridiculous cult of parenthood as ultimate high status of life. It's ridiculous. Sacrifice yourself and your own personality on the altar of the venerable child.

Bollocks to that. What's life without a bit of risk?