to think these parents are irresponsible and possibly cruel

[ShagOBite]

Inspired by a thread, which was inspired by another thread. (Don't worry MNHQ, no deletions or anything)

Why would you not teach your children to cook and clean? Surely even royalty need to know the basics? Why would you not teach such an important life skill?

AIBU to think it is irresponsible and possibly cruel?

I agree Bonsoir. My children have had me as a SAHM for ever and they are all totally useless.

I on the other hand came from a one parent family where DM worked full time from when I was very young, and we were latchkey kids from about 9 onwards as she couldn't afford the keep the childminder on. Consequently I was extremely self-sufficient, capable and responsible from a very young age.

I wouldn't say its cruel but I dont think you are doing them any favours by doing everything for your DC's

When DS went to University he was the only one in his block to know how to use the washers and dryers and was astonished others gathered round thinking he was Jamie Oliver when he cooked some simple chicken and rice with some spice in

You don't sound smug GetOrf.

The camp is a little split then on working/SAH making a difference which probably means it is down to the way we parent and nothing to do with the amount of time we spend at home. I just wondered if busier and busier lifestyles meant you were more likely to just do it yourself rather than spend the extra time chivvying a child to do it. Or if when you get home from work you just want to play with your dcs so you leave tidying for when they are in bed.

I just try to teach mine to take care of their own things. Of course they are only littlies so I can't answer for how they turn out! Dh and I were both able to cook and clean and take care of ourselves when we left home though so hopefully we ar managing to pass on the way we were brought up to our children.

There is always a learning curve though, I have certainly improved over the years. Knwing how to do laundry/clean up and being able to look after yourself is not at all the same as knowing how to run a household. We all have to learn and improve as we get older and gain husbands, children etc (though one would hope the husbands are an aide not a dependent) but it is certainly easier if you have the basics to build on!

I think if you aren't shown how to do things, you can learn the basic stuff by just watching parents do it. So if as a child you see your parent putting bleach down the loo for example every week, you do learn that is what you need to do, even if you have never done it yourself.

But I do thinks ome posters underestimate what is common sense and what they have actually learned as young children.

Yes it's better if you teach your DCs to how to cook and clean but it's not irresponsible or cruel if you don't. So YABU to think that. DD2 who can cook tried to put a small fire on the hob out with a wooden spoon. The reason for the fire was she'd been trying to melt some butter over the hob. She was 19 at the time.

indith - "I just wondered if busier and busier lifestyles meant you were more likely to just do it yourself rather than spend the extra time chivvying a child to do it"

I think that is true to a certain extent. It's always easier to do something yourself but as my kids get older they take on more responsibility by default - my older 2 are are at home alone after school for a few hours every day so if they want tea or a sandwich they make it. They have also learned to iron for the occasions when DH or I haven't got it all done and they need a shirt for school. They are crap at cleaning but I have noticed that every few months the vileness of their rooms gets to them and they have a massive spring clean and rearrangement of the furniture. All of them know how to make basic meals like chilli or spaghetti bolognaise. Unfortunately we have a rather savage gas grill now and I won';t let them use it so they no longer make themselves toasted cheese but inp principle they know how to.

If any of them want to be taught to cook I am more than happy to do it but as things stand they know enough to get by. I never remember my mum telling me she was going to teach my to cook - never. But I left home with basic skills and am quite good at it now after years or just getting on with it.

no it is not cruel, daft but not cruel

i was not allowed to do anything in the kitchen (apart from making tea and toast) and i never cleaned. my nanny was a little controlling in that way

left home at 17 and managed to do everything myself although not being allowed to do anything i was never told or made to feelthat i am not capable quite the opposite it was more along the llines you will have to do this when you are an adult so no need to now, and i always work things out myself. why would you ring someone asking them how to use a washing machine when you have the intructions (or now can go on the internet)

ds is 4 and likes to cook knows how to make scrambled egg on toast he also helps tidying up, loads adn unloads the washing machine, sadly this no longer interests him but at one time was his favourite game. i think it is important that he learns that he is responsible as much as others to do housework but i shall not be demanding he shares housework just helps out

Oh get a grip. It's not ideal but why does everything have to be 'irresponsible' or 'cruel'? Why can't it just be something that's a bit rubbish but none of your sodding business?

"Irresponsible" because, as parents, we have a responsibility to prepare our children to become independent adults who will have fair shot of a decent life, which, in our modern world, requires us all to have a very significant skill set.

I agree that if you can afford it you throw money at stuff.

I really don't cook very much now - which is a rather new development these past 2 months or so. DD is also out at clubs 3 nights a week, she also has a job 2 nights a week. I am on a diet. We either eat light snacks or go out for meals.

Irresponsible - yes
Cruel - no
Mad as it means they don't help out - yes

I also think that there is a danger in over-emphasising the moral worth of domestic chores. Very important to know how to do them but don't spend a single second more than necessary on the dull stuff. Teach your DCs that a very high quality dishwasher, washing machine, tumble dryer, vacuum cleaner etc are all life's essentials and should be used as much as possible.

"Teach your DCs that a very high quality dishwasher, washing machine, tumble dryer, vacuum cleaner etc are all life's essentials"

I wish! Washing machine and vacuum yes. I have a very high quality dishwasher. He also makes an excellent chef, child entertainer and hot water bottle . I do daydream about a real one though. I think dishwasher and tumble drier come under the "throw money at it" thing. A lot of us just cna't afford them.

But yes, it is knowing the basics that is important, not banging on about them all the time and spending every second doing chores.

If you can make a basic spag bol then you know how to chop, how to soften onions, how to brown meat, how to simmer a dish and how to cook pasta. You are therefore pretty well set to follow any recipe. If you can iron your own shirt in an emergency then you'll be able to iron other clothes when you have to. Sure, you might melt a few things on the way but you'll learn.

Agreed - it is the basics that are important to learn

I grew up in a household where my mother was very resistant to a dishwasher and tumble drier on grounds of economy.

But we ate off solid silver Georgian cutlery, went to private schools and had a large garden.

My mother was a bit of a martyr to domestic standards she couldn't really afford!

Everything in life is inter-connected imo, so if you feel in control re managing your house then more likely to feel more confident in work life too, social life, relanionships etc. When one area in your life is mess and you lose control then more likely to get down.

The poster's niece who calls her mum in tears regarding the laudry will probably feel not in control in other areas too and might see every tiny problem as a huge out of control drama.
Starting early at solving small practical problems around the house is symbolic aswell.

My mum worked full-time from when I was 5 and I was a latchkey kid from age 11. We didn't have a cleaner and my DB and I didn't do much housework. Looking back I'm not sure how she managed!

Is your mother still around to ask, mrspepperpotty?

Something I have realised about my own mother as I have got older is that, despite her strong feminist leanings (large bookcase full of all the main feminist writings), her vision of how her household should look and be was informed by an awful lot of very old fashioned concepts, many of which were unconscious. When I make decisions about my own household I try hard to work out whether I have unconscious legacies that are quite inappropriate for modern living informing my decisions.

She is still around, yes. I will ask her.

I think she'll probably say that looking back she wishes she had got us to help more, but I'm not sure why she didn't try to do it at the time. As I said upthread, the really important thing for her was for us to do well at school (which she achieved successfully with both me and DB, in his case overcoming the additional challenge of dyslexia).

I think you're absolutely right about feminist priciples fighting against subconscious legacies. I will have to watch out for this myself.

Not cruel. Irresposible.

You are right, it's subconscious not unconscious; I've got interference from French which only has one word, inconscient, for both!

One of my female cousins and I worked out, when we were chatting recently, that both of our mothers (not relatives) did something very unjust. Both my mother and my aunt had two daughters, and both leaned very heavily on their elder daughter for domestic support with far lower expectations of their younger daughter. Both younger daughters grew up to be domestically quite incompetent and spoiled! This business of leaning on older daughters for domestic support sounds like something out of an 18th C novel, or something from rural Greece and Portugal in the mid 20th C. Oh no! It was alive and well in prosperous, educated 1970s England!

I have two sons and I'm determined that they will be able to cook/clean because I know how miserable and frustrating it is living with somebody who won't do these things.

ds1 is 13 and he cooks, irons, tidies up and does small cleaning jobs. I ask him to clean the bathroom and he does it. It might not be up to my standards, but it's okay ds2 is 7 and he tidies up and wrestles with the vacuum cleaner.

It's irresponsible not to teach your dcs how to look after themselves and their environment.

Cruel is a bit strong, but part of being a parent is equipping children with the skills they need to become independent. I am trying to get my children to do very simple things like tidying away their toys from a young age, as I wasn't expected to do this kind of thing and now I really struggle with keeping on top of housework and tidying.

The thing is, people who say but it's obvious to clean and tidy up having probably been brought up in households where the family was quite efficient at housework. It may not be so obvious if you haven't been shown what needs doing. It's not rocket science but cooking and cleaning are still skills that need to be learnt and it's much easier to learn things when you're young.

Bonsoir do you notice a difference between expectations in France and England? In my experience French women keep a very clean and tidy house and work and arrange all the childcare.