to think these parents are irresponsible and possibly cruel

[ShagOBite]

Inspired by a thread, which was inspired by another thread. (Don't worry MNHQ, no deletions or anything)

Why would you not teach your children to cook and clean? Surely even royalty need to know the basics? Why would you not teach such an important life skill?

AIBU to think it is irresponsible and possibly cruel?

wow really can you do his meals in 30 minutes my friend said it took her an hr and a half to do one meal onelittle

I am surrounded, in Paris, by women of my own generation who grew up with maids and whose mothers did not cook or clean (ditto grandmothers, great grandmothers). They also do not cook much, or clean ever.

Their homes, while usually reasonably tidy (thanks to the help), are generally deeply grotty! They don't seem to know that pillows need underslips (or replacing, ever), window frames need cleaning, rugs need dry cleaning...

Yes, I do think irresponsible and unkind. Learning later is harder than having good habits instilled early. I do think that anyone brought up to be dependent on others for the basics of day-to-day living is being set up for a fall and has been deliberately handicapped by their parents.

I find competence and independence attractive, dependence and helplessness deeply unattractive. Plenty of boys brought up domestically incompetent do remain domestically incompetent as men. I wouldn't look twice at them and I'm sure plenty of other women feel the same, so their opportunity to form relationships is more limited.

It is a bit irresponsible I think.

I think the most important thing is to teach your children than everyone mucks in equally. DD is now 16 and takes equal share of the cleaning duties in the house - we split the work 3 ways between me, DP and DD and get on with it. I think it is rotten to raise your kids to do no chores at all, and is also crap to raise them seeing their mother do all the cleaning, when their father does bugger all.

You can have you areas of expertise (iyswim) - I never do anything in the garden but always cook, dd always cleans the bathrooms and does the cars, DP cleans the windows and cleans the bedroom and hoovers etc - but as long is everyone pulls their weight.

I think kids who go to universities without knowing basic skills have obviously never had to do anything for themselves, and there must be some mummy martyr somewhere (or legions of cleaners). In any case, it aint good.

I also still think that mothers of boys are far more indulgent than mothers of girls - I know it is a sweeping generalisation but the families I know with boys - they do a lot less than girls of the same age.

"Plenty of boys brought up domestically incompetent do remain domestically incompetent as men. I wouldn't look twice at them and I'm sure plenty of other women feel the same, so their opportunity to form relationships is more limited."

LOL, I have been emotionally blackmailing DP with the reducing-their-chances-on-the-marriage-market argument for some time in order to get the DSSs to do more. I didn't think he was paying very much attention until I heard him using it, in all seriousness, to his father when explaining why playing chauffeur to the DSSs was not kind.

DSSs' mother doesn't even make them take their dirty dishes from the table to the dishwasher, let along any other chores. So I'm constantly having to remind them that there are no servants in our house and that it is not acceptable to leave dirty plates with uneaten food on the table for someone else to sort out.

Actually they don't know how to do anything. About a year ago I witnessed the most bizarre sight when DH had asked DSS to do his own beans on toast. DSS (15) was stood with the open can in one hand trying to figure out how he would get the beans into the saucepan. He then actually asked DH what he should use to get the beans out.

allnewtaketwo

"I don't get this prioritising schoolwork. Surely the sort of cooking/cleaning encouragement required doesn't actually take much time out of a week. Helping to cook say one meal a week, doing the odd 5 min chore. Hardly going to interfere with study"

I did help out occasionally with the cooking and do the odd 5 min chore - I think some posters here are talking about a lot more than that though?

My point is that when I was growing up my schoolwork was always given precendence and considered more important. I agree with you it needn't be either/or - you can do both housework and schoolwork - but I think that, of the two, this was a more valuable gift for my parents to have given me.

I think its a parents duty to teach life skills, my kids can both do basic cooking and cleaning. It helps me when I am too poorly to do it plus they then learn the value of doing things for themselves. Even helping washing the car and rinsing the bath out it just common sense stuff for a more organised life when leaving home. If its not taught to be the normal thing to do how are young adults supposed to know? Why make them struggle with life when it could be second nature?

I think keeping their rooms livable, alternating hoovering the stairs and washing up once a week is a reasonable expectation of general chores. Taking out own plates, cups, washing, replacing loo rolls, throwing away rubbish, putting out rubbish bags and rinsing toothpaste from sink etc is just plain sensible. Mums are not slaves and as soon as a child is able they should take responsibility for such things. It doesnt exactly take long or hurt children to do these things and anyone who thinks its ok to constantly pick up after a kid is imo nuts! Its stuff we do automatically as adults that I had no clue about when I left home, my two will not struggle like I did.

I do agree with you that a 15 yo should know how to open a can of beans!

Thats not cruel. Its good to teach them these things but not cruel if you dont.

The trouble with consistently prioritising schoolwork over domestic work is that it leads children into the attitude, as adults, of using work as a trump card that overrides all other responsibilities.

Children need to learn that while school work must sometimes take precedence, that does not absolve them of responsibility for domestic work once school work responsibilities have been fulfilled.

What kind of fool needs to be taught how to clean? You see something dirty, you clean it? You absorb it from seeing daiily life going on around you.

If it were that simple...

Bonsoir

"The trouble with consistently prioritising schoolwork over domestic work is that it leads children into the attitude, as adults, of using work as a trump card that overrides all other responsibilities."

If I raise my DD to believe that her work (whatever she chooses to do) is more important than keeping her house spotless, then I will be proud of that. (Assuming a basic level of cleanliness!)

However if you specifically mean the case when the working partner (usually a man) believes his contribution to the family is more important than the SAHP then I agree that is a problem.

"What kind of fool needs to be taught how to clean? You see something dirty, you clean it? You absorb it from seeing daiily life going on around you"

It depends though. What I witness with DSSs is that an attitude has gradually been instilled in them that their mother does everything, there is no need to them to become independent or learn how to think for themselves because mum does all that. So not so much that they aren't physically capable of subsequently learning when they leave home, but that they have grown up not to see it as their responsibilitiy to learn any skills or become independent in any way. Yes they will pass exams, but they would definitely struggle in the workplace with no initiative of their own.

Thats not the same thing. If they've been actively taught not to do things for themselves, thats totally different.
But there is no secret to cleaning, you don't need instructions on how to use a sponge.

I managed to get all my GCSEs and A levels with good grades whilst still being expected to take my turn with the washing up a couple of times a week and do my own ironing from age 14. I had schoolwork to do but my mother also had work to do as well as housework.

If you have a good job then you also need to learn good time management skills.

If you don't learn some basics of cooking when you are young then yes, you can follow the instructions on packets when you are older, any idiot can do that. But you may never go on to develop the skills to feed yourself a healthy sensible diet. I wish I had been taught more cooking basics when I was younger as I am crap at it now and don't have a lot of confidence in the kitchen.

I actually think you do need to be taught or at least know that somebody does basic cleaning and how they do it. I think its easy to think things are common sense and not realise you have actually learned this at some time.

So for example, you don't automatically realise that you need to put bleach down the loo if no-one ever tells you. Or that you need to clean kitchen sinks. Or that you need to clean out the oven sometimes.

No, they've not been 'actively' taught not to do stuff. Their mother just literally does everything for them. That's why earlier in my post I said 'selfish' at best and 'abusive' at worst.

Not teaching a child to be able to cook simple stuff before they reach 18 is selfish in that it wouldn't have taken much effort really and would have helped them. In the case of DSSs, I would describe that more extreme end of the scale as 'abusive'. Having an 18yo who is incapable of understanding that they can and should think and act independently is a huge handicap.

It can lead to all sorts of situations whereby adults use work as a trump card. My DSSs' mother has always used work as a trump card to getting out of her parenting responsibilities.

Children need to grow up knowing that they have many sorts of responsibilities, and all need attending to. Knowing how to prioritise is a truly useful skill.

My young teenage DCs are rubbish at housework- even basics like clearing the table, putting their dirty clothes in the laundry and putting clean clothes away.

A combination of feebleness of my part to make them, lack of skills because they haven't done it and 'tricksy' aplliances and routines on my part- ie the dishwasher has one rubbish shelf, so things tend to go round twice some crockery goes in one cupboard, certain things are only washed by hand, etc.

I do feel I'm not giving them vital life skills, however they can all bake make tea and fix themselves a snack and don't leave the bathroom messy.

DS is more competent than his older sisters, but I do feel bad.

And in terms of cooking you can only follow a recipe if you know the very basics. For example, how to peel veg, cut up an onion, what boil and simmer means, what creaming or separating an egg means.

These all seem obvious if you have learned it, but for somebody starting with no cooking skills a recipe is actually very difficult to follow.

You need to be taught how to manage your time - so do your day job, your work at home, your boring chores and fit in your leisure activities.

I was shocked by that too and actually asked that very question on there. My mum taught me these things, perhaps at the other end of the scale and I probably did more than was the norm for a kid (eldest of 3 to a working single parent who was struggling). I'm thankful I was brought up to be independent and able to manage my life well and I am teaching my son in the same way.

Getting to a point where you can cater (shopping and cooking) for several people, day in, day out, providing varied and nutritious meals, without it causing you any stress does actually take a lot of practice.