to think these parents are irresponsible and possibly cruel

[ShagOBite]

Inspired by a thread, which was inspired by another thread. (Don't worry MNHQ, no deletions or anything)

Why would you not teach your children to cook and clean? Surely even royalty need to know the basics? Why would you not teach such an important life skill?

AIBU to think it is irresponsible and possibly cruel?

I have to say I'm obsessed with Teaching my DS how to cook and clean and about personal hygiene. He has ASD and I so want him to be independent. He might never read or write but he can still get a little manual job and have a little flat and be happy as long as he knows basic life skills. I think it's so important. But it is in no way abusive or neglectful if you don't.

I have tried umpteen times to teach my 3 sons to cook and clean and they just are not interested in learning. But there comes a time when they have to learn the hard way (as my DS1 is doing at uni now) and he hasn't starved or killed himself through lack of sanitation yet. I am even reliably informed that his bedlinen has been washed 'more than once' since september.

It's not a matter of teaching them to cook and clean- it's all about teaching them that if you live in a community (in this case a family) there are things that need to be done so thwt things run smoothy and happily, and everyone contributes according to time and ability. And it's nice to share food and to help each other. And it's nice to have clean clothes and a tidy bathrooom and a garden to sit in. And the pets have needs. And it's horrid to realise too late thwt the's no loo roll because the person before you didn't change it, or the bath's dirty. Just generally being considerate and friendly to each other.

Irresponsible yes. Especially if it is specifically based on gender (ie teaching girls to cook and clean but not boys)

I don't think it's about having the capacity to learn as an adult, I think it's more about forming good habits early on. You can be intelligent but still be messed up by the habits instilled (or not, in this case) by your parents! The older you are the harder it is to form new habits, IME - self-care being a prime example for me. I wasn't shown how to look after myself as a child and while I am perfectly capable of doing so now (I can ask for tips on MN, I can read instructions etc) I still find it hard because I am so used to NOT doing it. I have to force myself because it's not ingrained.

I don't agree that if you can read, you can follow a recipe and make good real food. You need confidence, motivation and encouragement so that you don't just rely on frozen pizza. I have two small boys and DS1 already helps me with the tea sometimes (he's just 4). Hoping I get him into the habit of these things while he loves to help, just so that he continues when he goes through the "ugh mum why do I have to do that" stage. I am terrible at making them do any chores tho (I tidy up when they go to bed). I am determined not to be their slave forever!

Yeah my parents did this with me and bad things are it does make things more difficult to learnn yourself.

However in a way before until I came on here I never knew that women ran round like this for men and its not something you would ever do or fall in to if you have been brought up not to do it yourself. A man will never be able to take advantage of you as many do on here.

So I think there is a middle ground.

My parents didn't teach me this stuff, and I never did any chores at all as a child. I figured it out myself once I needed to, no problem really (well, there was the odd mishap with cooking to start with, but nothing major).

I do agree that it's ideal to get your children helping out around the house, both for your sake and theirs. But I think 'irresponsible' and certainly 'cruel' is going a bit far .

fuzzPig - you make a good point. Of course one can pick up these skills later, but it is more difficult and it is not second nature to think for oneself when parents have been doing this role 100% for you until the age of 18.

A parent who doesn't encouraging children to learn to cook/clean etc is probably the sort of parent who doesn't consider whether their child is learning a wide range of life skills that will help them later in life. I think this can happen for various reasons. I've seen cases equally where parents think that academic success is enough for their children to succeed, whilst ignoring the fact that life skills often make a bigger difference. Initiative, ability to think for oneself, confidence, independence. The absence of all of these things is actually a great disadvantage in the working world.

I've also seen cases where a parent just needs to feel needed. Some parents simply don't want their children to become independent. This is selfish at best and abusive at worst.

Not cruel as such, but not easy to learn from a book either if you know nothing. Remember the people in the jamie oliver programme who didn't know what boil or simmer mean't, or how to peel vegetables. Bopoks don't tend to teach this.

With cleaning i was embarassingly old before I realised you are supposed to clean the toilet seat, handle and use toilet brush. Before then I thought cleaning the toilet meant putting some bleach down.

Cruel is definitely taking it too far. Any idiot can figure out how to make beans on toast and wipe the worktops down.

My parents didn't teach me any of that stuff but I'm from the era of Domestic Science lessons (girls only, of course ) so the school taught me.

I always get ds to make the dinner not by pitching it as helping me, but as me helping him to learn a life skill

My mum was a terrible cook. I taught myself at the earliest possible opportunity so as to avoid eating her food. I'll ring my dad now if I need help on any traditional english food and my gran for everything else.

She never taught me to clean, as such either, but I did see her use cleaning products and appliances, so it was pretty easy to figure out what to do. It's not really rocket science, is it?

The poster who tried to clean the bath with a dry cloth is, imo, either dumb as fuck or was exaggerating. Common sense would tell you to use water at least and I would hope she knew what 'soap' was by that point in her life

My mums next door neighbour does everything for her ds. He's 24 and he's only just learnt how to cook pasta

I do think it's cruel not to set your children up for living on their own and teaching them to cook/clean.

I do think it's a little irresponsible, but cruel is going too far.

I learned to cook from very young, but in my first job I was asked to sweep a floor and had no idea how best to go about it. Soon picked it up, obviously.

All my DCs (aged 14- 18) can cook and clean. They do their own washing and any ironing they want doing too.

It's not so much that these things are difficult, as that they need to get used to not having someone waiting on them all the time. This is especially true of the boys, where there is still an underlying cultural expectation that they will have wives/girlfriends to take care of the bits they don't want to do.

Like thegreylady, my parents encouraged me to prioritise reading / schoolwork over helping at home. I wouldn't say I never did any cooking or cleaning, but it was pretty ad hoc and I certainly never had regular chores. I did very well at school (and still love reading), which has almost certainly been more helpful to me in later life.

I picked up cooking after having DCs and now really enjoy it. Still pretty rubbish at housework

I don't get this prioritising schoolwork. Surely the sort of cooking/cleaning encouragement required doesn't actually take much time out of a week . Helping to cook say one meal a week, doing the odd 5 min chore. Hardly going to interfere with study.

My mum did everything for me well not that she spoiled me but i think she has Ocd so everything has to be cleaned in a certain way and in order so if we tried to do something it would upset her and send her into a tizz , when i left home i muddled through and learned to cook not that im brilliant or creative but we dont starve , yes i think its important children learn basic life skills but it isnt cruel there is a lot of cruel things a parent can do to a child , yabalittleu ,

I personally believe that the greatest gift you can give to your children is to teach them to be self sufficient.
My kids all know how to cook and how to keep things clean (doesnt mean their rooms are clean all the time tho lol).
I have also tried to teach my children the pitfalls of credit cards and buying on credit. So hopefully when they are older they will buy things with money saved than with credit.

Some parents want to do everything which is fine just not how i want to raise my kids.

It is nit cruel but to be honest it is pretty shit.

I have had massive bollockings from ds2s school about his lack of independence. To be able to care for yourself is a skill most teenagers could do with in terms of self respect, confidence and self reliance.

My mum never taught me anything. Her upbringing had been women running around after men and we were brought up that the boys did fuck all while the girls did cooking and cleaning -except me. She had a sort of realization so, instead of making the boys get off their arses, she didn't get me to help. She woukd tell me to go and read.

So I left home, living in a bed sit in the Kings road. I had very little money and lived on take aways for the first year. I put on a stone and felt useless and revolting. I then moved into a flat share and just continued earring sandwiches and cook chill because my flat mates all knew what they were doing and I just felt humiliated everytime I tried and fucked up something more challenging.

Ds1 has gone off to school. He isn't brilliant but he is CONFIDENT - he is expanding what he can cook and it helps his budgeting. Most of the guys who share his accommodation are completely helpless.

It isn't just reading a book or everyone could sew and repair their plumbing. Getting confident and comfortable in the kitchen can affect whether you will ever be any good.

Cruel, no. Inadequate? Yes.

It amazed me at Uni how many people were truly shoite at basic life skills such as cleaning. I had a flatmate once who only changed her bedding once a term. She smelt :(. Surely its a parents responsibility to instil basic cleanliness into their dcs before they leave home?

YANBU.

My mother certainly taught me all the basic domestic skills. She got my paternal grandmother to give me Step-by-Step by Marguerite Patten when I was in primary school and let me work my way through the recipes. I then got another book by Mary Berry, and finally graduated to Constance Spry, which was my maternal grandmother and my mother's cooking bible. She also taught both me and my sister to sew (by hand and using a machine), to iron, to vacuum and dust, to wash up, set the table and expected us to make our own beds, clean the bath after using it etc. I don't think she intellectualised it - she just expected to pass those skills on, in much the same way as I do.

"It's not so much that these things are difficult, as that they need to get used to not having someone waiting on them all the time. This is especially true of the boys, where there is still an underlying cultural expectation that they will have wives/girlfriends to take care of the bits they don't want to do."

I agree, and I see many mothers of my own generation who have a really hard time not waiting on their sons - even expecting teachers to wait on them.

I was never taught to clean or cook. My mum never cleans or cooks. We grew up in Hong Kong where everyone has a maid. Cooking and cleaning is considered 'beneath' the middle classes. I learned how to do both easily. Cleaning is just spraying detergent on things and scrub it with some cloth. Hardly rocket science. If you can read, and watch some telly, you can teach yourself cooking. I'm actually very good at the latter now, cooking fresh everyday. (Can do the Jamie Oliver 30min meals in around 30min).