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Original poster

Weekend in Amsterdam - how would you feel?

557 replies

cathkidstonrefusnik · 18/02/2012 10:46

I wasn't sure where to post this - I'd like to have a range of views, so didn't post in feminism. I've name-changed.

Some background first...I work in a male-dominated environment where the view of women purely as sex objects amongst some of my co-workers (not all by any means) is not far below the surface.

It has improved in the year since I've been there, at least when I'm around, largely because I can, and do, challenge inappropriate behaviour - it's public sector, so there are strict policies, and my boss is very supportive, although somewhat unenlightened himself at times.

Anyway, in a few weeks' time, it's one of my co-worker's stag celebration, and a large party are going to Amsterdam. Now, unless I'm getting the wrong idea, this is bound to involve strip clubs, sex shows, possibly prostitutes, isn't it?

Although it's entirely up to them what they do (legally) in their own time, I must admit it gives me the creeps - I'm quite surprised by some of the ones who are going to, among them married men with young children.

Am I over-reacting? Is it at all possible the weekend will involve drinking and drugs without the sex element?

I haven't commented on it negatively in work, and what exactly the weekend involves hasn't been discussed in my presence.

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 19/02/2012 12:33

If I knew a group of men were off to Amsterdam or Prague etc. for a stag do, I would assume that they were sex tourists and I would treat them with the contempt they deserve

despite the post here?

*I went to Amsterdam on a stag weekend. We did smoke weed and drink beer. Some of us - including me - went to the Anne Frank Museum, while others went to the Rijksmuseum. None of us went to a strip club, or visited a prostitute, or browsed sex shops. This didn't strike any of us as a particularly remarkable set of choices to make, and our party had plenty of laddy men.

The frequent assumption here that if men are going to Amsterdam it must be for sex boggles my mind. There are, as has been said, strip clubs and prostitutes everywhere. The legal weed is the far more likely reason*

LeQueen · 19/02/2012 12:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

catgirl1976 · 19/02/2012 12:56

LeQueen you are a sex tourist.

Clearly. No other reason for going to Amsterdam apparantly.

:)

WoundUpLeaf · 19/02/2012 12:59

To balance this thread, last time I was in Amsterdam, I did have a LOT of animalistic, borderline illegal sex. It cost me a lot of money (I put my back out and chiropractors cost a fortune). It was all with IAALOTW though.

I don't think either of us slept with anyone else there though...

LeQueen · 19/02/2012 13:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Malificence · 19/02/2012 13:05

We are talking specifically about groups of men on stag parties, not people visiting Amsterdam as ordinary tourists.
In general terms, groups of men go to Amsterdam, Latvia, Prague, Berlin etc. etc. for stag parties on organised trips so they can indulge in strippers, sex shows and prostitutes, there is a massive industry around it, anyone who thinks otherwise it pretty deluded - you only have to google it to see how many companies are offering these services and you only have to look on any wedding forum to see how much these events are feared.

LeQueen · 19/02/2012 13:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WoundUpLeaf · 19/02/2012 13:11

Malificence - disagree. As posted last night in a long post (23:10 I think), most men don't go with that intent. Some end up doing it, but please bear in mind that being invited to a stag party doesn't automatically make you a sex tourist an generally the ones that do t would have done it before pr this was just an 'excuse' to do it for the first time. The majority just want to survive intact. Has your DP ever been to a stag party? Did he (assuming it is a he) have a choice where they went? Would yu call your DP a sex tourist?

I've been to Berlin for a stag do. The go karting was fun, the best bit was surviving unscathed, having to go jogging with a hangover was the worst bit. We didn't go to a strip club and no-one slept with anyone that I'm aware of.

Does that make me a sex tourist?

catgirl1976 · 19/02/2012 13:12

Yes - some men do. However a lot of me on stag dos go to Amsterdam for the weed, Latvia and Prague for the cheap beer and Berlin for the nightlife.

A Lot of men go on stag dos to places including Amsterdam and do not use the sex industry and a lot of men do use the sex industry regardless of where they are in the world or what the occasion is.

To assume that all men on a stag dos to Amsterdam are sex tourists and will use the sex industry is just not right. They might, they might not. You cannot make some of the sweeping generalisations that have been made on this thread without being rightly told it smacks of predjudice.

LeQueen · 19/02/2012 13:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnyFucker · 19/02/2012 13:19

WUL could I make a request that you stop telling us about your sex life

cheers

FreudianSlipper · 19/02/2012 13:21

really so men are paying for a flight and a hotel in latvia for the cheap beer Hmm oh please

what and the sex industry has increased greatly with the amount of men visiting and or maybe these women are really hanging about on the off chance they pay get a customer

why is it so hard to accept that many many men are doing this and yes they are lying to their partners as very few will be truthful about what is going on

AnyFucker · 19/02/2012 13:24

It makes one wonder how the sex tourism industry in Amsterdam continues to thrive, doesn't it ?

All these men that go there and don't avail themselves of it

And why the trafficking gangs take huge risks in breaking the law, to bring all these young girls in to staff it

It's quite a conumdrum

chibi · 19/02/2012 13:25

There are only 4 dudes in the entire world who pay for sex, and that's all they do, whizzing from city to city visiting every prostitute in turn

there are definitely not more than 4 men doing this, and they for sure aren't anyone's dh, father, son, brother, co-worker, neighbour

nope nope nope

SigmundaFraudina · 19/02/2012 13:26

Has anyone read my link? No?

AnyFucker · 19/02/2012 13:26

morning afternoon everyone, btw

catgirl1976 · 19/02/2012 13:27

Erm - yes they are going for the cheap beer. Why don't you ask some of them?

And the bobsleigh run is very popular with stags. The flights are cheap. The bars are cool.

I can tell you they are not buying a flight and a hotel to go to a lap dancing bar. They can go to those anywhere in the UK should they wish to.

Of course some of them will go to a LDC or see a stripper but that is not the primary reason for going. NOr will all of them do that.

AnyFucker · 19/02/2012 13:27

yes, I read your link, SF

thanks for posting it

it didn't change my opinion about the men who pay money to abuse women, and the women that apologise for it though

catgirl1976 · 19/02/2012 13:29

Any Fucker can you not see that because some men visit a city because of the sex industry not all men do and you cannot label all men who visit a city on a stag do as tourists?

Is that really hard to grasp and do you honestly think that saying that is denying the sex trade or apologising for it?

AllFallDown · 19/02/2012 13:29

Malificence: your insistence that "in general terms" stag parties go to Amsterdam or Prague or Latvia or Berlin for the purpose of procuring sex is as ridiculous as it would be for me to insist that "in general terms" groups of people going to Birmingham do so for the purpose of eating balti. Everyone knows it's there; it doesn't mean everyone - or every party - wants to indulge. Also, there may very well be other perfectly good reasons to go to those places. I'm sure there are plenty who to choose to exploit the local sex industries, but - as a man - I would be truly astonished if many stag parties did much more than walk through the red light district with jaws dropped before retreating to the safety of a bar.

All the men I've known who've gone abroad for stag parties (including the ones I've been on) have done so because a) it's as cheap to fly to these places now as it is to get a train to somewhere in the UK and b) it's a change of scenery against which to get drunk. That's all - those are, literally, the only reasons.

SigmundaFraudina · 19/02/2012 13:30

No, of course it didn't, because your prorities are skewed.

SigmundaFraudina · 19/02/2012 13:30

*priorities

ilovesooty · 19/02/2012 13:31

Some men do: some men don't.

In any case, provided she isn't treated with disrespect at work the OP has no right to know about it one way or the other - even she says so.

ilovesooty · 19/02/2012 13:32

Exactly: AllFallDown

Malificence · 19/02/2012 13:33

I'm sure there are plenty of men who go abroad on stag dos and don't take part in any dodgy behaviour, however, there is a huge industry built around facilitating mens' use of the sex trade, there are dozens of companies who organise such trips, so there must be an awful lot of men using their services, they wouldn't stay in business for very long if there weren't. Almost every package advertised contains at least a strip club visit.
I would still assume that a group of sexist men, as the OP describes them, would be going to Amsterdam predominantly to pay for sexual entertainment in some form - that is a long way from thinking that all men who go to Amsterdam are the same.
Woundupleaf - No, my DH has never been to a stag party and didn't have one himself, bar a night in the pub, they weren't ridiculous themed weekends away 30 years ago, thankfully.