to think it is unacceptable to leave a 12 year old and 9 year old home alone with a 12 month old baby

[PinkElephant73]

It is half term this week and someone I know went out during the day, leaving their 2 older children age 9 and 12 alone with their 12 month old baby sibling who was asleep having a nap while the parent was out. The parent was out on 2 separate occasions for a period of about 30 minutes, but says they were no more than 10 minutes from home either time and the older children could have contacted them on their mobile phone if there was a problem. They do not seem to think there is anything to worry about with the above scenario.

Is it just me or is this totally irresponsible? what would you do if this was your friend?

silly, as in childish behaviour Rita, behaviour that is expected from children?
Now you are being rude! and ridiculous, you even put in your post 'most' 9 yr olds, well, that doesn't cover ever single one of them does it!

How dare children behave like children!

I would like to add, that accidents happen when a fully competent adult is in charge, you are expecting too much from a 9 yr old.

"I think leaving a 12 yr old (whether they're responsible or not) is a lot to put on her.

If there was a fire, what would she do?"

I think she'd tell the 9 year old to get right out and raise the alarm, then run up, get the baby and get out of the house.

"so the baby wakes up from a nap in her cot, cries, the 9 year old hears and goes to get her. he trips coming down the stairs with her and drops the baby, she falls down several stairs and lands on the hard hall floor, banging her head and resulting in an egg sized lump on her forehead. all 3 children are crying hysterically as the 12 and 9 year old think that she is seriously injured and could die."

If you think your 12 year old would not be able to stay calm in such a situation then of course they should not be left alone.

A big factor for me is that we know our neighbours very well and there is usually someone in (SAHM, retired). In the extremely unlikely event of something happening where more help was needed, then they should know to call for help.

I'm not missing the point, thanks . Thats one of the points here, and I disagree.
Yes, IMO, older children are practically specifically designed to help with their younger siblings, and I don't see any problem with older ones minding younger ones. IT has been this way since the dawn of time. What is so darn precious about 21st century youngsters that they should never have to help their parents?

Am arfing at the idea that ss (actually children's) services would take a 'very dim view' if something happened to the kids. Sure, if the kids were known to them and the family had many previous. But really, this paranoid idea that 'social services' (it is Children's Services, actually did I say that?) are going to remove your kids or prosecute because you left them alone and something happened is just rubbish.

Also - whoever said houses don't burn down - tell that to my now homeless neighbours who went out last sat night and left their woodburner turned down low. Luckily the kids were at a babysitters - the smoke alone would have killed them.

The thing is, OP, he went out bloody running when he could have been doing something with the kids. You are pissed off because you wouldn't dream of going out and pursuing your own hobby while the kids were left in the house. How come he can bloody well get away with it and you can't? It's the perceived unfairness that is unacceptable to you.

There is a difference between helping in the presence of a parent, which i agree is a normal expectation, and being left alone, completely responsible for another being, IMHO.

Thats your opinion, I have mine. So I'll decide for my children, and you decide for yours, and everyone can quit judging everyone else.

I think it's fine, especially as it was for such a short period of time.

I was babysitting from the age of 13 and by 14 babysitting over night.

blondie80 Wed 15-Feb-12 14:56:43
"Paranoid - I think you're missing the point, maybe you aren't, it's not that the dc aren't capable, but why should they have too? Is that what older children are for, to be brought up trained to look after younger siblings whilst mum or dad too lazy to pop a baby in a buggy and take them along nip out for 30 mins for whatever reason?"

I think in a way it is. To feel part of a family, to be given small responsibilities, half and hour at a time, so you can gradually grow into adulthood over many years, rather than have it descend on you all of a sudden at 18.

One thing surveys about child happiness in different European countries have brought out is how children in countries with higher child wellbeing figures tend to be far more involved in family projects: helping out with the diy or with building projects, looking after the car of the boat or whatever, cooking the meals from a young age, minding siblings. And no, we are not talking third world, I am thinking of countries like Sweden and Finland.

From a modern British viewpoint that could be seen as taking advantage and mum and dad being lazy, but it does actually seem to be something that is conducive to wellbeing.

blondie the point is that a) children are part of a family and families should help and support each other, and b) they need to develop the confidence to make sensible decisions and not panic irrationally when something out of the ordinary happens.

Why should my dcs cook each week - is it because I am a lazy arse who can't be bothered (actually don't answer that!) or is it because it helps me out and develops their cooking skills?

Older children need to do things in order to learn how to be a well balance well adjusted responsible member of society. Parents that say 'Well it's my job to do everything' do not help this process!

fair enough, just one quesion, would you leave your children to look after any mindees? (sp) I am guessing no, but i would like to know, if that is ok?

Whatever happened to let children be children. It's unfair giving children this age adult responsibilities.

When it comes to mindees, it is clearly a very different matter: when you look after somebody else's child you have to do it in a manner that is satisfactory to the parents of the child. You don't get to make parenting decisions about other people's children. But you do about your own.

Well presumably the 12 year old wouldn't be OFSTED registered or insured so obviously no (and couldn't be due to laws on children's working hours and the fact that most of them have to go to school ). No law about babysitting ages though.

blondie80 Wed 15-Feb-12 15:07:04
"Whatever happened to let children be children. It's unfair giving children this age adult responsibilities."

You are making it sound as if the idea of asking a child to mind a sibling for half an hour was a totally new and unheard of concept that would never have happened in some mythical golden time when children were allowed to be children. The truth is that the opposite, leaving all responsibilities until the age of 18, is a very new concept and mainly confined to this country.

Adult responsibilities!!!!! It's looking after your younger siblings for half an hour, not 50 hours down the pit!

No far better to let them get to the age of 18 having never looked after a sibling/pet/put a wash on/hoovered/cooked then set them free to be an adult....

I agree cory, children should be taught responsibilities, but i am unable to come up with a good reason why a 12 yr old needs to be left alone with 2 smaller chidlren to learn responsibilty?
You can be even more family orientated by showing a child and supervising childcare until they are a little more age appropriate.

well it all depends on what you consider age appropriate, doesn't it OTTMumma?

I am just pointing out that the British take on what is age appropriate is not the same as that of the rest of the world

I have said at the start that my dd(12) is more than capable, responsible, mature, etc enough to lokk after her 2yo sister.

I don't leave her to mind her sister because of the 'what if's'.

DD can cook simple meals, do cleaning, pop to the shop on her own, etc and is very involved in family life and support and is well balanced. In fact her maturity for her age is often commented upon.

titchy, I feel it is mine and dh's job to look after dd(2) not her sisters.

I wouldn't leave younger children with older ones just to learn responsibility, thats a by product. I'd do it because it suited me for some reason. I wouldn't leave other peoples children with them, but I fail to see what relevance that has? There are lots of things I do with my kids that I wouldn't with anyone elses.

My stance has nothing to do with me being British
It has everything to do with still feeling horribly responsible for an accident i couldn't prevent happening to my little sister, when i was babysitting her at 11 yrs old.

Titchy, i would consider childcare an adult responsibility, i find it odd that it is ok to leave an under 16yr old to look after children over night in some cases, but you have to pay a registerd, regulated business when you need childcare in the day to go to work.

Ahh well I don't think looking after your little sibs for half an hour childcare! It's doing mum or dad a favour.

Presumably if it's only the parent's job to look after a little one then said little one won't be going to nursery/school etc where others might have to look after them?

The parent' job is to ensure health and well being, none of which are being compromised by having an older sib looking after them for a shortperiod of time.

You don't HAVE to pay a regulated business for childcare - nannies and family members for instance!

Ok, I understand where you're coming from, OTTMumma.

My only experience of a horrible accident in the family (head injury) happened to dd right under my eyes when I was 35, so I suppose it isn't an age thing to me in the same way.

I know I did the right thing to deal with the situation then, but otoh when my little brother had a (slightly less serious) head injury when I was about 8 or 9, I also did the right thing.

Basically, as I am not a trained medic, the only thing I can do to deal with most serious accidents is to get help. I managed that at both ages.

"There are twelve year old girls in this country who have their own babies. "

Um yes indeed there are. And I think we'd all agree that's a scenario that is a result of a catastrophic lack of parental supervision at some point. Hardly the shining example of how unsupervised children can show maturity and responsibility to trot out on a thread like this!

BalloonSlayer Wed 15-Feb-12 15:30:34
"There are twelve year old girls in this country who have their own babies. "

Um yes indeed there are. And I think we'd all agree that's a scenario that is a result of a catastrophic lack of parental supervision at some point. Hardly the shining example of how unsupervised children can show maturity and responsibility to trot out on a thread like this!"

But funnily enough, Balloonslayer, this and other types of risk-taking behaviour are far more common in this country than in countries where independence starts earlier.