To Think Living Abroad is Rarely as Good as People Think it Will Be?

[lesley33]

I lived in Switzerland with young DCs. But the country you visit as a tourist and the country you actually LIVE in, are ime often quite different. We came back after 2 years. And I have spoken to many other people who have "discovered" things about living in a particular country that as tourists they were blind to.

For example, a friend returned from France after hating working there as she found the hierarchial, formal, non team working environment very difficult.

Visiting a country can be great and you can love many things about a country - the scenery, being family orientated, etc. But you don't often get to understand the negatives of a country. I have lost track of the amount of people I know or meet who say - i would love to live in x country - without any understanding of the realities. For example - no you wouldn't as x country is well known for having very negative attitudes towards people with SN like your DC.

So AIBU in getting frustrated at this. I know secretly I probably am as I was one of those people.

I'm living in my 5th country now and while they all have their peculiarities, as my expectations have been realistic, I have not had any huge surprises and disappointment either.

Of course it's very naive to assume that what you see during 2 weeks of holiday is actually it. Being on holiday anywhere, not only abroad, sleeping late and doing whatever you want is different from..well, not being on holiday and dealing with work, bills, schools and general everyday drudgery.

living abroad has made me realise 'there is no place like home' and i never want to go back and live there. The UK, yes but not my home town. Everyone is still there as few move away living in blissful ignorance (though sometimes I envy that as we now don't know where we want to settle).

I never really missed British food and where we lived there wasn't any other British people. So we really did try and assimiliate and mix.

But I had underestimated in a very family friendly society how much people were happy just socialising with family and friends from school and how reluctant they were to make friends with our family. We ended up pretty isolated in a very family orientated society.

I do think moving abroad pre dcs is probably a different experience to moving as I did with young dcs.

I know of women who have been through far, far worse. I KNOW not all Greek people are like that, of course I do, and I have since been told that where I lived was apparently "the shame of Greece" (their words, NOT mine). But it has damaged me to the extent that I now fear everything I don't know, that isn't familiar.

I still love the music and the (ancient) history, the architecture and things like that; I've even tried teaching my little Greek Goddess, DD1, the language from an early age. But knowing exactly what the vocal locals think of the English would stop me from even holidaying there ever again. (Hotel guests, GROWN MEN, would come to me almost in tears because a local had been so horrible to them, and they'd tell me they'd never go there again and would go to Spain in future because "They might hate us as well but at least they hide it when they take our hard earned money"...)

GarlicFrother, you are so right about the British drunkenness - I was often embarrassed to admit I was from the same country!

I tried explaining to DD1 that that programme, SunSea and Suspicious Parents or whatever it's called is a bloody disgrace, and that the behaviour like that displayed in Kavos, for example, (although encouraged by certain tour operators and bar owners), is just one reason why raging xenophobia and misogyny, sexual intimidation and full-on rape of holidaymakers happens rather more often that anyone cares to admit. She thinks I'm an old fuddy-duddy but trust me, I know only too well what I'm talking about.

The UK, yes but not my home town. Everyone is still there as few move away living in blissful ignorance (though sometimes I envy that as we now don't know where we want to settle).

In my experience you also wind up with more in common with those who have travelled than those who you grew up with but never left their country.

I do think moving abroad pre dcs is probably a different experience to moving as I did with young dcs.

From comparing my friends' Swiss experience with others in similar situations (and our experience) Switzerland seems especially hard going.

I have a good friend who moved to Switzerland and have visited a couple of times - I've always thought it would be a difficult place to live because of the formality and rigid social structure - hard to meet new people, etc, and some of what I've heard has backed that up.

I know of one woman with a young baby there who feels v isolated without the support network you'd expect to get in the UK (whether it be via NCT, NHS or other ante-natal clubs) - she just isn't meeting other new mums anywhere, and expat circles of friends are all very closed-shop.

However, my friend in CH is a massively gregarious person who has a brilliant knack for bringing people together, and having that kind of ability really helps imo - in fact she's been able to start up a small business which revolves around introducing people to new people/ideas/skills etc. So it really can be all down to what you make of it, rather than the place itself.

Slacksally, thanks for that.

I've been living abroad in the UK for the last 19 years and I quite like it. Yes, it is different, yes you have to be tolerant and adaptable- but it's not a bad life.

There were a few surprises and I certainly needed more than 2 years to get used to things and start to feel at home, but it's been worth the effort.

I think the OP has a point about a very family friendly culture though- it can be quite isolating for those coming from outside.

"In my experience you also wind up with more in common with those who have travelled than those who you grew up with but never left their country. "

I agree, going home I feel frustrated sometimes, people can't see beyond the end of their noses but it is a small insular town. The friends I made living away I have kept in touch with. At home I actually get comments like 'well, you know that's not 'real life' - well it is for us.

Lunabelly wow! you've really had a terrible time.

I've lived in Greece for years, and my experience couldn't be more different. I've met lovely people, all my friends are Greek, I don't even know any other expats. I love it here! If it weren't for the fact that the economy has fallen off the edge of a cliff then I would never think about leaving.

What I have found that many expats who struggle in their new country do so because they expect everything to be the same as home - plus the beach, mountains, sea, better salary or whatever the reason was they decided to move.
You would not believe the numbers who complain that you can't get the exact same crisps than back home (ignoring the 101 local varieties) or how horrible it is that this or that is not done the same way. One would think that as this is a different country, it's only reasonable to assume that there will be some differences, but apparently not..

Alexpolismum - I suspect you live in a different area :)

It seems the more touristy the area is, the more xenophobic it is. I guess small things on each 'side' start it off, then it takes on its own life and momentum...

There's many things I miss about Greece, but the bad apples have killed it for me.

There are next to no tourists where I live (Alexandroupolis). I expect you are right. It's probably a reaction (extreme in your case!) to what the locals see as foreign culture creeping in and taking hold.

I think it depends on why you move, in general (war and oppression etc excluded) if you are unhappy at home you'll be unhappy abroad IMO. If you move to get AWAY from your life it'll follow you (you'll have similar relationships, similar work problems, similar debt etc), but if you are okay at home but move TOWARDS somewhere you feel more of an affinity to then it can be wonderful.

It also takes a few YEARS for a new country to be home

I was happy enough at home, but sort of always felt a bit like how people describe being born in the wrong sex feel, I always felt my life was happening without me in the UK, so I moved, and it is home, am more at home here than where I moved from. I get home sick for here if I go back there etc.

Now here's the thing that can confuse if you're trying to gauge the issue, if you went to the places where ex pats from my country congregate you'ld probably find that the majority, probably all, would say that it's not all it's cracked up to be. The ones who say it is are scattered and integrated and sometimes hard to identify.

It is same shit different town, it's not a permanent holiday, you still spend most the week at work, come home to bills etc etc. But I didn't move to get away from real life, I moved because I prefer WORKING here, I prefer dealing with companies here (hate the backhanded "who you know" way of doing things back "home") I prefer the daily grind here, the daily grind grates at "home". Days off are nice anywhere (well most places).

I've also lived and worked in America, I hated it, people always assume it was a big old holiday. I don't feel an afinity with American culture "under the surface" (class divide etc). Of course at the time (early 20s) if anyone asked my how it was I'ld say "oh it was AMAAAAZING"

When it comes to Australia I think the proof is in the pudding. EVERYONE I know who moved there is back, despite saying how AMAZING it was and how they'ld love to go back "SOME DAY"

I think if it's truely right you don't call it "AMAZING". I don't describle life in the UK as AMAAAZING. There's good and bad, but more good and less bad than "home" and if I had to go home for something specific, there'd be no "some day" about getting back, the UK is my real home and it's where I'm meant to be, I wouldn't be contend to file it away under "maybe some day".

The best thing about living in America BTW was how, even years later, I still appreciate how much time I have OFF with a 37.5hr week (compaired to twice that with a day off once a fortnight maybe), and how my employer doesn't OWN me, its a 2 way relationship with rights and obligations on both sides

Alexpolismum Ah. The mainland :) I was on an island...

Though I did say to a colleague that if you don't want drunk girls in wet t-shirts parading around, don't open a wet t-shirt bar that offers free shots to girls

Hated how they give "perks" in america instead of rights, like a few fancy dinners paid for the boss which then get thrown back in your face if you ever question them and don't show blind loyalty.

But I never intended to go there permanently, was just for the sake of the experience

Very interesting thread. I am also from abroad and I've lived in the UK for 10 years (with a couple of 1-year 'stints' back home in Argentina). I also lived in Mexico and would love to experience living elsewhere in Europe in the near future. I know first-hand that no place will ever be just like I expected it to be simply because expectations are not based on reality and are mainly formed by hopes, stereotypes, other people's experiences, etc. Wherever I've been, I have tried to go as far as possible from my "local" culture and I think that many people make the mistake of trying to find what they're used to in a new place only to be disappointed and make comparisons with home which are never constructive.

I don't feel "attached" to a place and I love the thrill of discovering new peoples, cultures, customs, etc. The fact that I was randomly born in a place does not make me belong there imo. I like to take bits from different places and make them a part of my daily life. What I would say, though, is that my perspective of living in London differs immensely from that of being in a small town (where I'm now). I appreciate the fact that having rolling countryside on your doorstep is lovely but, overall, I would choose London hands-down every time. The one thing that I still struggle with to this day is the drinking culture...it drives me insane but I've learnt to "tolerate" it (back home, though, I wouldn't have that problem but I'd have many others so all in all, I still prefer the UK).

The way I see it, life's too short to stick to one place and miss out on so many wonderful experiences the world has to offer.

some people also like to be proven right about home (which in itself makes it a valuable experience for them if they go home and appreciate that more I suppose..)

Like the ex pat I met in London who didn't like England because there were no green hills

She wasn't otherwise thick, think that proving that home was where she should be was maybe subconsciously part of the aim for her..

Like with America for me, there was no point in me seeking out a better life there, I didn't go intending to have a shit time, I wanted to have an "AMAAAZING" time, but when I wasn't having a good time there was no point in finding a way to make it work because I knew I'ld never feel comfortable making that country my permanent home. Same applies to the UK. I've lived in parts of the UK that I HATED, but moved around and saught better, which I found, because I like the UK as a whole and as a culture.

I know a LOT of people who've moved to Oz - at least 10 former colleagues and that's not counting their partners/other halves who moved with them, in some cases.

Only one couple have come back so far, over a period of the past 7-8 years of knowing people who've moved there, and in their case I think it was partly due to having elderly parents in the UK who they'd hoped would move down under too, but didn't.

However, I know at least one Oz person (with dual nationality) who has no intention of ever going back. From what I hear, people there work VERY long hours, getting pizza delivered to the office instead of dinner at home seems to be a regular occurrence. I think people work very hard during the week and make up for it at the weekend with the beach and surf lifestyle. And Oz is not cheap at all, at the moment.

I am surprised at those who say they love NZ. I think the countryside is gorgeous, but I find the casual racism and homophobia pretty hard to stomache. People talk about it being like the 1950's - well ime it is, both good and bad.

YABU to generalise. I had a wonderful experience living overseas for several years but it took a bit of effort, it's what you make it to a certain degree. Sometimes struggle being back in Blighty which I think is a little country with a big ego.

sozzledchops, my point was that the discussion has a hybrid of people making a permenent move and folk going for a long-ish temporary stint - like 2 years. The mindset is totally different, even if the day-to-day is the same. Obviously I realised before I went, whilst I was there, and when I came back that visiting for a couple years is not the same as permenantly living there; just as you would see that about all the countries you've lived in temporarily. I'm surprised you'd imagine anyone is dim enough not to realise that.

We were making a permanent move. I think I would have felt differently about the country if it was for just a few years.

I lived abroad (Europe) for a few years and cried with homesickness for most of the time. I think you have to be in a certain mindset to be happy away from your home country. At the time I was very attached to my family and thought no one could replace them, on reflection my foreign in-laws probably despaired of my constant weeping and bemoaning of anything that wasn't English. Ten years older and wiser I realise that no place is perfect, and that family dimensions change. If I had gone at this time in my life I think I'd have been much happier than I was then.